"In the last few days, I had to turn away 3 people from this site who were interested in my dogs due to my previous posts. I had to tell them to look elsewhere because I did not know if they were serious or just some of the pests here on a fishing expedition trying to dig up some dirt on me."

Huh? You "had" to turn people away? I don't get it. And what's with the "fishing expedition?" Now you act like you have something to hide. Don't have a bunch of puggles hidden in the closet, do you?

Oh, so Ruffian, you are saying in YOUR CASE it is okay for the breeder to decide what the truly important things to test for in the breed are, but I can't do that.

Gotcha.




And Pugglewhatever-- What are you 10? Don't you need to be 13 to post on here? You haven't contributed one logical statement.

Honey, let the big people play.

alicat1
Senior Member
Joined:3/1/2005
Posts:3174
Posted: 11:42:13 PM 2/21/2008
"And Pugglewhatever-- What are you 10? Don't you need to be 13 to post on here? You haven't contributed one logical statement.
Honey, let the big people play. "


Listen lady (and i'm using that term lightly.....very lightly), it's LUVMYPUGGLEBABY, get it right. I don't want to have my lawyer sue you for LIBEL.

and you haven't contributed one LOGICAL explanation as to why you continue to breed the jacked up dogs that you do. or one LOGICAL (accurate) statement regarding health testing. In fact, a LOGICAL person would argue her side by citing multiple sources and not the same thing over and over again.

Did I mention that I hate you?!?!?!

I have never said that everything under the sun needs to be tested, sorry again that is you, I have said that the appropriate health tests need to be done, according to the breed club.

According to the American Boxer Club this should be tested for:
RECOMMENDATIONS FOR HEALTH SCREENING OF BOXERS
IN BREEDING PROGRAMS

TESTING AND REPORTING GUIDELINES
ABC HEALTH & RESEARCH COMMITTEE

Use and interpretation of tests should be in consultation with your veterinarian or veterinary specialist. These guidelines will be updated as further knowledge is gained.
Condition Tested Test Used Minimum Age Frequency Reported As
Hip/Elbow Dysplasia Radiograph
Radiograph 2 years
6 mos. Once
Once OFA# or
PennHip%

Hypothyroidism Thyroid Panel2 2 years Annually for Breeding date tested**

Aortic Valve Disease Auscultation / Doppler1 None None date tested**

AS / SAS Auscultation & Doppler Echocardiogram1 24 mos. 1 Once by Echo date tested**

Boxer Cardiomyopathy1 Holter Monitor 12 mos. Annually for Breeding date tested**

Heart disease can be inherited or it can be caused by bacterial, viral or parasitic agents these are NOT inherited. The damage appears the same in some cases. A screening program can help determine the origin.

All hearts should be ausculted at each veterinary visit. This is particularly important prior to any surgery, including ear cropping. If a murmur is detected the dog should be evaluated to determine the cause and significance of the murmur. Murmurs may be innocent (“flow” murmurs) or may be an indication of structural heart disease such as aortic stenosis, sub aortic stenosis, septal defects or defects of the mitral, tricuspid or pulmonic valves. Echo with Doppler measurements can accurately find and diagnose the origin of murmurs which cannot always be heard or reliably pinpointed by auscultation alone.

1. Maximum flow values have recently been reevaluated and raised to 2.4 IF there is no evidence of structural causes. The cardiologist should determine if the flow value for an individual Boxer is of concern. Current information is that AS/SAS may develop upon sexual maturity in dogs that were previously tested clear, thus the new recommendation for 24 mos. minimum age. Boxer Cardiomyopathy is a complex condition that is still under study.

2. Thyroid panel must include the following tests: TGAA (Thyroglobulin auto antibodies), Total T4AA, Free T4AA (by equilibrium dialysis), cTSH. (Optional tests include T3 and free T3)

3. Because these results can change over time, or because the age at testing may be significant, it is essential to list the date of the most recent test in each case. There are no normal values for some of the recommended tests, and there can be differing opinions between experts in the field.
http://americanboxerclub.org/health-screening.html

See I told you I can copy and paste, I guess I can read and learn as well maybe that is because "everyone else does" though.

Ruffian, don't confuse alicat with the facts.

Cushi, why do your posts sound so familiar,,,hhmmm. They sound like another poster that used to come here. I would almost swear you two were the same and i'm not just feeling "blue" and whistling "dixie".

And its funny how whenever Ali shows up, you are right behind her. Its amazing how she can even walk with her little seat "Cushi" stuck to her rear.

Dusty is my Hero!!!

Shinyblackpit,
Actually, I mentioned the breed I breed in another thread here. Apparently some thought I was making sense and wanted to get some more information about my dogs. They wanted a link to my site or my ad. My suspicious nature prevented me from divulging any information due to the attitude on this forum which could have potentially cost me some sales. But since I did not advertise here, I am not actually complaining. But, and that is a big but, had I actually advertised here, I would have been pissed if I could not give potential buyers the information they asked because I had to worry about what they will do with it.

What you basically saying is that if someone advertise here, they better think twice before posting anything in the forum or even in PM. This should not even be an afterthought on a pet advertising site. Now I have been around and know better then to associate my true identity with my alias, but not everyone is that savvy.

Dusty,
You know what they say, “birds of the feather…” ;)

Seriously though, it is not Ali that draws me in, it is the inevitable controversy that is left her in her wake that sucks me right in.

" Seriously though, it is not Ali that draws me in, it is the inevitable controversy that is left her in her wake that sucks me right in. "

Or, maybe your just one of those dogs that like to scrounge around in catboxes looking for goodies........

Hmm.. Yes, that really is what I would advise if I were asked, unless one was perfectly willing to bare all about their breeding program. And some are; Abbylynne mentioned that she advertises here, and I know that she is very open about her program. But if I were a breeder and I thought people here would strongly disagree with the way I did things, I would want to keep my forum posting separate from my ads if I posted here at all. Particularly so if I had done any poo-disturbing on the forum. Maybe less so if I had been just answering people's training questions or showing off pics of my dogs playing fetch and having pleasant interactions. It's a hard call, and a personal choice. In light of some of the recent conversations you have been involved in, I can't say I blame you for not giving out your info willy-nilly.

Hey, at the same time, the people you turned down were people that wouldn't have known of you if not for the forum, so I wouldn't say that you lost sales BECAUSE OF this place. They could have been people fishing for info and then they could have been potential clients. Like I said, hard call. But a quick skim of the first page or two should easily give a member a good idea of what the tone is here so that they have an idea what goes over well and what doesn't.

***Edited By: shinyblackpit on 2/22/2008 12:56:34 AM***
Reason: how do my posts get so LONG! I need to go to wordiness anonymous.

alicat1
Posted: 10:37:34 PM 2/21/2008

"Yet I am the evil, terrible, horrible bad breeder."

Hmmmm...is it "breeder bashing" if you bash yourself - & should the poster be banned?

Shinyblackpit,

“PS-- There was a link to an ad in the post you referenced, and I got rid of it. Which I will do if I see one or if someone is kind enough to point it out to me, as I don't read every post or catch every boo-boo.”


Three different mods have posted and participated in the bashing on that thread and none of them had bothered removing that link.
I am starting to think that maybe Ali’s claims about the mods’ neutrality and selective enforcement of the rules have some credibility after all.

Note the difference between 'bashing' which seems some think is anything posted that they dont agree with, and voicing an opinion. Mods are still permitted to have an opinion and to voice it, the right to think and speak was not taken from us with the title.
I personally tend to spend more time editing out things that break rules than to post usually.

Love te ones who think Mods should be seen, clean up and protect them from the mean people, but not allowed to post and be heard as well.

***Edited By: lpn169 on 2/22/2008 1:44:26 AM***
Reason: my brain can spell, my fingers dont seem to follow

Cushi, you're right. The link should have been removed. I missed the call on that one, which was "iffy". I was the first mod to delete all kennel names, all breeder's names, e-mail addresses, etc... Go back through the threads, since you have the ability to search the archives. Links to ads run on TP, since they ARE posted here, again, iffy.

I can only speak for myself and once again I will say, disagreeing is not bashing. Asking intelligent questions is not bashing. Pointing out contradictory facts is not bashing.

There are breeders who do come to this forum and actually learn from the information provided. They improve their practices and their bloodlines with that knowledge. So while some posters may be against anyone breeding, you will find they vast majority looking to have those who do breed be responsible about it. To learn and grow and improve.

Based on the info you, personally posted, I would guess any inquiry you received was probably a legitimate one. While you've enjoyed pulling folks' chains, you also provided information to indicate you are a responsible breeder.

As a responsible breeder, it is in your best interest to have an educated "purchaser". If people are concerned enough to seek out decent breeders and ask the right questions, it would lend itself to showing that they have done research on the breed. They more than likely would be knowledgeable enough to provide proper care for the life of that pup, with your guidance & assistance.

Sadly, that is not true in all cases.

Moderating on this forum is done on a voluntary basis, by long time members. Yes, we do give in to our human nature every now and then. When something hits close to home, we will post as ourselves, not as a "Mod". Wrong? Perhaps, but then again, human.

As far as advertisers having more rights and freedoms on the forum, there is a section that only breeders with paid advertising, mods and administrators can access. Should admin so desire, the entire forum can be turned over to breeders only. If that were the case, there would still be controversy between those who are responsible and those who are not. If admin should decide that it is wrong for the general public to participate in discussion, they can screen potential members on a one by one basis, approving or not as each applies for said membership.

As long as the forum is a public and open forum, there are going to be some heated discussion about certain types of breeders and breeding ethics.

***Edited By: pyrmom on 2/22/2008 2:19:06 PM***
Reason: * oops