I'm sorry, but I've seen the results of a whole community who can barely look after themselves, and dogs mean absolutely nothing to the vast majority. This is a community where the kids are up all night, to get away from the drunken abuse at home. Some of the stories they have told me about what they've done to animals makes me ill. Is it their fault? I say yes but mostly no. I trained my children to love animals, although sometimes I think thats just innate. They were never allowed to tease an animal. These kids have'nt been taught anything, never mind respect for an animal's life. Once a month a guy goes around this place and shoots every dog that's not tied up. That in itself is not teaching anyone anything. I'm not blaming this guy's parents, at all. I've seen enough boys teasing dogs to realize they were'nt 'taught' to do that. On the other hand I've also seen a lot of grown men who are immensely cruel to animals. As Pope says, there is no fast and easy answer to this, but one thing I do believe is that the emphasis should be taken off the military.They're over there, fighting an invisible enemy, and what do we get to see? Some stupid goons playing 'I'm the big man' with a puppy.
How in the world does this one person throwing what I believe to be a dead puppy have anything at all to do with your assurances that you are safe and secure? That is a pretty weird leap to make.
As for the argument that whether or not the pup was alive or dead is a, so eloquently put, 'retarded issue'... COMMON SENSE should tell you that it IS a key point in deciding just what this man is 'guilty' of. Dead puppy being thrown feels nothing, alive puppy being thrown is torture.
That dog is dead, plain and simple. It's not curled up in a relaxed, and then tense position 'preparing for launch'! lol It's obviously in a 'Im dead' position, which it remains in throughout the entirety of the video - no need to be a forensic pathologist to see that it doesnt move, it has a semi-rigid position, akin to say, oh I dont know the first twelve hours of death, I'd say, being that this is the desert weather we're talking here.. if not even longer. Just because the dog doesnt show signs of decomp doesn't mean it's not dead, let's be reasonable, here.
So, I guess Im THAT demented, because to me, this is the key point, and one that I did take the time to look into before forming my opinion on the video. I searched the video frames carefully for any sign of life, and saw none. IF I believed the puppy were alive, I'd be of a different mind set. And by the way, wanting to be informed hardly makes me obssessed :)
Lastly, none of them are in their 'right mind'. You couldnt be and do the job they're doing - you have to be in a *certain* frame of mind, and calling it 'right' by civilian standards wouldn't be appropriate. But that's as far as Im going into that side of things, since this is an individual we're talking about here, not an entire defense force.
Yes, dead animals often tuck their tails between their legs when held up to be admired by all of America. You are so right... Get real lady.
I'm also sure the only reason idiot number 2 did not touch the puppy, was because it had to be deceased! It couldn't have anything to do with a mentality of not wanting to "catch" something off a stray who has never seen a vet. Or any other number of reasons. Like one soldier in a video of a litter of stray Iraqi puppies said: "They probably have aids or something."
You can't make that connection? Why am I not surprised at that? I think retarded might have been the perfect wording, in that case. If that is the worst wording you have ever seen in your life, you need to get out more often, "jee-zuz"! (Which happened to be a rather eloquent usage of wording on your part as well, if I do say so myself.) Let me try to spell it out one more time for you, since you are telling me you are still having a hard time with comprehension. Try to pay attention... People are coming home from a war. In this case, they are coming home to A-M-E-R-I-C-A, where most of the people who visit this board live.
In a basic sense, you are defending this, in saying "blah blah blah, it's no big deal it's a dead puppy.. there are far worse things to be seen." it's idiotic. These were 3 soldiers. How on earth do you not understand when you use your brain and do the math at just how many returning soldiers may have suffered irreparable mental compromise?
After going over both of your posts, full of your own strong opinions (and I do mean full of...) there is no point in continuing this any further with you. I know where you stand with your opinion, and I have stated mine. Have a nice life complacent in that bitter little comfortable pocket of ignorance.
I too would recommend to the people who have not seen this video, to track it down. Watch it. And surmise your own opinion.
I find this whole thing very upsetting. Whether the puppy was alive or not what happened to it was horrible. But what I find even worse is the reactions I have seen on this site and throughout the web. If the video showed a man in a suit throwing a puppy would we all be saying businessmen are all killers and a danger to our society? Every man and woman in uniform is being held accountable for one man's actions. Yes our soldiers are trained to kill when necessary but that does not mean they go about killing everyone they see and any stray animal on the street. My husband is a soldier in the US Army and he has the same training as these men. I also know that if he was to find a sick or dead puppy it would not be his first instinct to make a joke out of it. He would not be tempted to throw a puppy just to kill something. One man did a bad thing and he should be held responsible but my husband and his fellow soldiers should not.
kmbranson: I'm looking at this whole thread and not seeing posts that slam troops in general. On this thread, any comment that even came close got slammed down pretty fast.
There are people who are changed, and not in a good way, by spending 100 straight days or more in combat. As a military wife, if your husband has deployed to a war zone I hope you've been briefed on post-traumatic stress disorder and how to recognize and respond to it if he comes back with it. You probably already know, PTSD has the effect of desensitizing some of the people who suffer from it, in a way that harms their ability to connect emotionally with other people and with animals. Not usually, but sometimes. And there are people who join the military who are already pretty messed up from Day One, and I'm not going to argue whether they were born or made. Commanding officers are trained to spot these people, who in some ways can be effective and fearless soldiers, and to keep an eye on them as much as possible. So these effective and fearless soldiers don't murder civilians, punch out another soldier's teeth, or sexually assault a fellow soldier when she has to use the latrine in the middle of the night.
If you read a book like "The Sociopath Next Door" you might get comfortable with the idea that all sociopaths aren't necessarily mass murdering criminals. Then maybe of all the soldiers you've ever met, you might remember a few who seem to fit the criteria. Again, not a slam on the military in general. But people have to be at liberty to express horror and disgust when something like this comes to light.
My husband has been deployed and although there was some adjustment when he returned he was in no way running around killing puppies. Post-traumatic stress is a real problem faced by many soldiers. I am just afraid that many of the soldiers are painted as "damaged" without anyone really knowing anything about them. There are some soldiers who slip through the cracks and don't get the treatment they should when they return, but that is not all soldiers, or even most. I just don't agree with people stating that of course these soldiers wouldn't care about a puppy they kill people for a living. My husband has served for over 11 years. Everyone I know has dealt with at least one deployment, most more. I just hate to see our soldiers painted in this light because of the actions of one man. Really everyone would have forgotten about this long ago if these men were not in uniform.
Can anyone in fact say definitively that the puppy was alive? It sure looked alive to me, on the clip that I saw, but the clip had no sound. I did'nt like the grin on the man's face, and could find no humor in it. I think it would be nice if this were all to be clarified.
"Have a nice life complacent in that bitter little comfortable pocket of ignorance."
The most hysterical part of your entire post is right here, and that's a strong statement I made, considering your post in its entirety is laughable. You don't know me, my military experience, my worldly experience, my age OR my education level, THAT much is clear. It's also clear that you are incapable of any type of posting that doesn't involve at least one attempt to belittle and name-call others. Which makes your ignorance abundantly clear. I will not be reading this thread, or these forums any longer. I don't know what I was thinking coming back here, to a forum so lacking in individualism and rational thought.
That is so sad. He couldn't be one of our brave men. Why would someone do something do horrid to a helpless little animal. I have not seen the post but from comments from everyone else, I can picture it. I hope there is logical explaination for this, did he think it was the enemy, was he blind and thought he was dropping a rock. God be with that puppy.
I think that war sometimes does strange things to the most gentile men and women. I think I would hesitate to pass judgement...A man who commits and act like that is not evil...he is sick. I think that all of us would be hard pressed to keep all our marlbles. And he is one of our brave men. We do not abandon him because he is sick, we give him help.
I believe a dog's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment he holds dear, is when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-with a ball in his mouth."
I always worrie about people who sign up for a job that involves killing other human beings. It isnt just this one man. I highly recomend the book From Baghdad, With love By Jay Kopelman It shows how one marine trys to save the life of one puppy, while witnessing the murder of many others, not from individual soldiers, but because of thats What the folks in charge told them to do (remind you of milgram?) read the book, it will really open your eyes to whats actually going on in Iraq, but its still a heartwarming tale =)