First I must say, I did not intend for my story to cause such issues. My main concern was only to make the people running the adoption agencies aware there are many people willing to give love and care to homeless animals. PERIOD... There are too many animals available at shelters that need homes. I don't know what qualifies a good home. I am not a Vet, I am not an animal behaviorist, I am not a breeder. I am a very loving mother, wife, and nurse. I save lives for a living. If in any way I thought my animals were in danger by living outside I would re-evaluate the situation. I guess I must make a couple things clear. (which no one bothered to ask..they just assumed.) My 13 year old dog lives outside. yes that is true. He has a fenced in area to run and play. It is attached to a shed with a doghouse as well. Inside the shed are his bed, water and food. When my husband or myself are home, Buddy gets to run and play outside the fenced in area. He does get to come in rest inside. We do not leave him run around in the house for several reasons..1. He lifts his leg and pees on furniture. as well as dribble while he walks.... 2. when he goes to the bathroom, his stool is often very soft..takes much more than a "paper towel and spray", especially on berber carpet. I have 2 children whose health I must think about as well. That is part of being a good parent.
As far as the fenced in yard and 5 acres. The 5 acres we live on are surrounded by woods, corn field, hay fields and one neighbor. The neighbor has a dog outside too. Guess what, they play together. You can't see the road from our house. The only thing I have seen are: deer, groundhogs, and an occasional pheasant. We live very much in the country. My dog is very well behaved. In fact the best I have seen IMO..ha ha..He NEVER leaves the yard. He doesn't even chase the meter maid. You know, I did go somewhere else to get a puppy. Yes, I went to a breeder. I bet they were not the best breeder I could've or should've gone to. As long as there are agencies that have the courage to turn down a family willing to love and care for an animal, these breeders will exist. Had the agency taken the time to call my Vet we have been with since Buddy was a baby, they could have verified the quality of care we religiously give all of our animals. No, they chose to play with the life of an animal that is still in a shelter almost 2 1/2 months later. Who is really getting hurt? The people wishing to adopt, no they go somewhere else. The people really getting hurt are the agencies. The reputations of SOME of these companies are the ones that struggle. I work at a major hospital and have heard several people complain about the same agency. For now, we will continue to crate train Max. Buddy will remain outside where he is haappy and healthy..Max will continue his puppy classes and continue to be in his crate when appropriate. I guess as long as I see how happy and healthy my animals are others opinions are just that...OPINIONS..
OMG, I must be one of those bad breeders too Pen. Cause I live on a ranch and my dogs are bred to hunt and they love being outside. They do love there time in the house with me as well, but I would never deprive my dogs of there love of the outdoors because someone else thinks it is a bad idea. Ha ha occassionally we have a calf in the utility room too, but I don't think I am ready to start raising all of them in the house. But it was funny when one of them was clunking around the dining room in the middle of the night. I think as long as a dog has food, proper shelter, regular vet care, and interaction and love from there humans, they are not required to live in the house.
He's your friend,your partner,your defender your dog.You are his life,his love,his leader. He will be yours faithful and true to the last beat of his heart.You owe it to him to worthy of such devotion
joce- should people that work full time not have kids. edited to add on: maybe a little uncalled for. You are saying now you are going to rethink adopting to people that work full time. The majority of America works full time. If that is the case, you shouldn't have 5 dogs and rescues...
***Edited By: maxpup on 3/18/2008 4:33:59 AM*** Reason: add on to comment
windy, that is hilarious....my neighbors used to have baby goats in the house...they were cute..No you are not a bad breeder. My dogs love outside time. My husband said Max was whining at the door all day because he just wanted to be outside playing..ironically, he is sleeping next to me on the couch right now..
This must be slow day-I was sarcastic in saying I wouldn't adopt to people who work-I work! Good lord!
As far as keeping males and females apart I had two intact females and an intact male for years no issues.(corgi whos show career never got off the ground,a pei who also never made it and my dobe who isn't going under again-and before anyone jumps on me the females are fixed now-have been for years) I have rescues here all the time waiting for their alter and never once had an issue a gate or two couldn't fix.There have been squabbles but they were all my fault. And no I wouldn't buy from a breeder who kenneled there dogs. Having a kennel and using it full time are also two different things-you made it sound like you have some huge kennel breeding operation.
As far as dogs being outside I never said my dogs are not outside-I live on a farm and they are always out with me. But then again its one of those risks you take because things could happen. I consider all of my dogs working dogs or I wouldn't have them-nor would I be able to live with five unexercised dogs in the house all day. I don't know were I said dogs shouldn't work and be outside-there is also a huge difference between working dogs and house dogs. A dog thats outside because its incontinent is not a work dog. On the other hand a guardian breed should be attached to the livestock and be outside. But we all know most breeds are supposed to be with their people and that usually outside dogs are outside dogs out of laziness not because they are working.
I've been going back and forth for a couple years now on building a kennel so I can pull more than one dog at a time but then it goes back to if I am really doing any favors since I can't have them all in the house then getting socialized and trained etc etc. Its just like having them kenneled at the pound.
You can pick little parts of my post and try to make me look bad-go for it.
And if a rescues reputation goes down for not adopting to someone who keeps there dogs outside thats pathetic-and I'd want to know whos the one judging? Only those who were turned down.
If I have any beliefs about immortality, it is that certain dogs I have known will go to heaven, and very, very few persons -James Thurber
I have to say I am not with maxpup on this issue. It isn't like your family is being denied the privilage of owning a dog, period. There are always people giving away free dogs, always people trying to get rid of a litter of unwanted pups, and always goverment funded no-refusal shelters. These three examples all have one thing in common, and that is they really don't care who they give their dogs to, as long as someone takes them away. At least no-refusal shelters try to ensure they won't produce further unwanted litters by fixing them, and spread disease by vaccination, some even microchip, and charge enough money to disway those who want dogs for fighting purposes or animal testing. But their number one goal is to move that dog out of their facility in a matter of weeks, days, even hours, because if not then they will put that animal down. They move it out in the hope that the new owner will feed it, care for it, provide it shelter, not let it run off, but they don't take the responsibility upon themselves to ensure these things happen. Responsible breeders, no-kill shelters, and rescue groups are different, because they take resposbility for each animal in their care for the duration of its life. They are often fostered in people's homes, instead of kenneled in a shelter 23 & 1/2 hours a day. They become very attached to each animal and are willing to keep it as long as it takes to find it a good home. They turn away other animals that need their help, in the hope that this animal already in their care will find that perfect home if they keep looking. I just adopted Dora from a rescue group and I think her case is a perfect example of what I mean. Her rescue group is a group of 4 families who run their orginization out of their own home, only funded by donations - and very probably are their own biggest contributors. They fostered Dora in their care for a little over 3 months. While she was their, she was not only vaccinated and micorchipped (and after adoption, they paid the activation fee for the microchip, another $25), they also had an umbilical hernia repaired. When Dora had problem potty training, and seemed to be leaking urine almost constantly, they found she had a UTI and put her on a round of antibiotics. When she still had problems, they ran several tests, blood tests, urine tests, X-rays, ultrasound, to rule out any tumors or deformaties. She was found to have developmental delays due to an early spay (at the shelter she was rescued from) and they put her an a round of hormone therapy to catch her up. Not only did they house train her, as well as starting obdience training, they worked with her fear of new dogs and people by socializing her, worked with her food agression too. She is still quite a handful now, I can't imagine what a little terror of a puppy she was! When we adopted her, as a part of her adoption "fee" we recieved the following: the crate she had been sleeping in since she arrived in their rescue, a selection of her favorite toys, a buckle collar, a martingale collar, a leash, the rest of her hormone pills to complete her therapy, a six month supply of heartguard, two bottles of puppy vitamens, a box of dog biscuts, a gallen bucket of the food she was on to help transition her to our food, a book on dog training. Dora's adoption fee? $175. That doesn't even nearly cover the vet bills she racked up; I don't think it even covers the extras Dora came with, that we would have had to purchese anyway. We practically got her for free, we tell people. To adopt her, we had to fill out a questionaire, have three personal references, a vet reference, and a home inspection. We had to sign a contract stating we would return her to the resuce if we no longer could keep her, that we would enroll her in obidience classes, we would allow them to contact our vet to make sure she was kept up to date on her shots and checkups, and we would notify them if she became ill or passed away. We were asked if we had a fence, we do but it isn't a great one and we never let the dogs outside unsupervised; furthermore until Dora is reliable with "come," she isn't allowed off lead outside period. We were asked about our work schedules, we do both work full time, but they way we are scheduled, there are only two weekends a month we both work at the same time, both 12 hour shifts. On those days, we either hire a pet sitter to come walk them 1/2 through the day or leave the dogs with family. We were asked if we had young children, we don't but if we did, with this breed it would have been an automatic refusal. I was concerned about "not passing" their test for whether or not we could adopt Dora, but if we hadn't passed I would have understood their position. They asked if we rent and we do, and I know that we plan one day to move out of state, and it will be a task finding another place that will allow us 6 cats and 2 dogs. We will have to make find one however, because otherwise I would be in the pposition they are, trying to find a home for one of my babies, and I wouldn't give them to someone who left them outside in their old age either.
I guess we all have to agree to disagree..I understand everyone's opinion that finding a good home is critical. I agree. I am sorry though I won't allow my home to smell like urine and feces by allowing an incontinent pet indoors. No matter how often you clean, working long shifts and accidents will happen when unattended to that long, your house will smell. I chose to allow my animal the freedom of outdoors and not making himself upset when he messes. As far as the reputation of your specific agency, that is on your shoulders not mine. I didn't say everyone I spoke to was declined for letting animals outside. Some actually were able to adopt pets and said they would NEVER go through an adoption agency again. If you want to pick apart my post go ahead. I know that the care I give my animals far exceeds that of others. I no longer feel the need to justify myself on this topic. Joce just do me a favor, the next time you work 12 hours try and hold it as long as you can. Remember that feeling when you can't hold it anymore and you have to finally go to the bathroom. Now imagine your pet indoors afraid to go because they are not supposed to go in the house. That is the reason my dog will not be confined indoors when I work 12 hour shifts. I thank you all for your time, it just confirms my belief in the mentality of the people running SOME of the adoption agencies. And for the record, you all must scare some of the people on the TP message board, because I have received several messages of horror stories with adoption agencies and how they won't go back.
"because I have received several messages of horror stories with adoption agencies and how they won't go back."
I have heard the same "horror" stories about purchasing from breeders as well.
I was personally turned down from an animal shelter for a pit/Doberman mix pup. I had a doberman in the past and thought the mix would be a good match for me. When asked if I would have kids in the future I said I may and they said this was not the dog for me. It didn't discourage me as I ended up adopting Lucky Lu (Pit) instead... I guess in reality if potential adopters really had it in there head to rescue, why wouldn't they keep trying? I would get nowhere fast if I simply became discouraged and gave up because one person/agency turned me down or told me no.
Your best friend may just be a click away "www.petfinder.com"
maxpup i don't blame you one bit for keeping your dog outside. if i had a dog who had an incontinence issue it wouldn't be living in my house either. it would be euthanized or living outside like your dog. i had a dog who had toilet issues, not due to incontinence exactly but due to mobility issues, she couldn't walk. i can't tell you how quickly i came to really hating that dog on some days because it never failed i came home to huge messes in the house. i wish we could have had her live outside however due to her inability to walk, she would have been an easy target for anything to hurt her, so she remained in the house. i loved that dog with all my heart but i will never go through that situation again.
one thing i can't stay with you on is your choice to go to a breeder because the first adoption didn't work out. if adoption is what someone feels in their heart is the right way to go, then you stick with it til you find the adoption agency and pup/dog that will work with you. but i will agree that some rescuers have become way over the top when it comes to placing dogs. they have developed a god complex which only hurts the animal in the end and in a lot of cases as proved by your post, keeps scummy breeders in business.
***Edited By: scout1 on 3/20/2008 10:15:29 AM*** Reason: x
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
And if a rescues reputation goes down for not adopting to someone who keeps there dogs outside thats pathetic-and I'd want to know whos the one judging? Only those who were turned down. >>
I completely agree.
i don't agree at all. each person's situation is different. i have never been turned down for an adoption however, i can pass judgement on a lot of rescue's policies as being completely ridiculous because they indeed are.
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
not the case in that particular thread, but in many, many cases, all a fence does is give someone a false sense of security. whether it be false that their dogs won't get out or that someone won't get IN.
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
I get bashed every now, and again, because of our rescue rules.
They are very strict. I must say though, most who are turned down understand, and actually take what we tell them into consideration. I will even help them find a different breed, thru another rescue, which is more suited for their family and lifestyle.
Then we have those who turn into "potty" mouths. Wowzaaa, they get turned down, the name calling, and the "f" word starts flying all over the place.
I believe all rescues have the best interest at heart. They are not perfect, but they do care.
Our dogs were(most) taken because they claimed we werent feeding them. Only because one was a little thin and I dont keep food down all the time! The thin dog was a picky nervous italian greyhound who would not eat much when the male dachshund was around because she was scared of him!! My daughter is sad because they wouldnt let us keep her LH black/tan dapple dachshund who she's had almost 2 years. That dog was hers since the day she was born!!!
Scout1, I guess I could have tried another agency. I just assumed they all had views like that. I just don't want others to go through that. It all worked out in the end. We have Max and he is wonderful. I guess it is true when they say everything happens for a reason. Thanks for your support. I feel the same way. Buddy is happy outside and yes he is still with us instead of having to be euthanized. I couldn't do that to him. He still was with it and active. He was our very first baby...before kids..We plan on keeping him around as long as possible..Thanks
Maxpup, there's nothing wrong with keeping your dog outside at all, especially with the incontinence problems. When my lab was getting up there in age, she started having bowel problems. She slept in her cage at night, and every morning I'd get up a little earlier and have to clean her cage out, without fail. When she started "going" as she was eating, I knew it was time for her to be put down. She was 14 at that point.
I work full time, and I have a nice house. I love all my dogs and spoil them rotten, but I also wouldn't want my house turned into a smelly poop and pee pit.
So nobody should judge unless they've gone through the incontinence-in-the-house problem.
I dont usually reply to post's but i guess this one has struck a chord. Maxpup there is absolutely nothing wrong with leaving your dog outside when no one is home. I find that as long as weather is permitting it is probally better than to have your dog run the house. My dogs prefer to be left out when no one is home. Crate's are a neccessary part of training puppies it is better to crate an animal than to get fustrated with it, and you will find that if you use a crate correctly the dog will use it as a safe place. I call them dog people. You all know what they are like, overprotective parents. The ones who believe that they are the only ones that know the correct way to handle a dog. The ridiculus rules for owning animals set fort by these people make me crazy. In short Treat your dog as a living creature put here by the same being responsible for you being here. Treat him/her with kindness and respect and insist on respect back. I dont know who made the post about a letter from your vet, butit was a very good idea. It wouldnt be bad thing to have the vet ready for a call from the shelter and to ask them to do so.
Pyrman..thanks for the kind words. Unfortunatley, no one did call my vet. His name, phone number, and name of facility were all listed. I even had to list references. None of them were called either. The agency didn't even want to look into it further. Yet 5 minutes on the phone would have taken the puppy from the agency to our loving home. Instead he spent 2 1/2 more months with no family to call his own. It worked out for the better....I know I gave another animal an awesome loving environment. He just graduated from puppy preschool and is ready for the next class. I just posted to make others aware of what is going on in some adoption agencies...ironically, Max wants to be outside with Buddy all day playing with my kids as well. He literally follows my 9 year old daughter every step she takes. Very loyal..