There is a big difference between a kid with a stick and a large man with a club. If you can't see that, well, enough said. Also, I'm not a dog trainer, didn't claim to be, all I'm saying is that you should state all of the facts if you are going to put them down.

Really if the dog attacking the fence and horrible background music is what attracted you to the breed then you may be so sort of lowlife, I dont know I dont know you.


That website is just like hundreds of "breeders" with tow chains hanging off of their dogs, or them hanging off of trees by their jaws all the while saying they "dont condone dog fighting". It is set up to attract thugs who want a "big tough dog" to compensate for whatever they are lacking in other areas.

They could make that site a hell of alot better and truly informative about the "breed", without throwing an attacking dog right there on the front page, it is tactless IMHO.

A well trained protection dog WILL NOT attack a fence sorry, but a dog that goes off like that is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

That is like saying a rotty that is poked by kids threw a fence is a protection dog

...Im lost on this one

Really if the dog attacking the fence and horrible background music is what attracted you to the breed then you may be so sort of lowlife, I dont know I dont know you.


Now you're just getting petty.


A well trained protection dog WILL NOT attack a fence sorry, but a dog that goes off like that is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Well since actual 'Schutzhund' isnt "protection training" and french ring IS training a dog to bite "anywhere", then in your eyes a well trained protection dog will bite a person anywhere? im sorry but THAT would be a lawsuit waiting to happen.
So since they aren't portraying schutzhund they dont know how to train a protection dog?


Your comments are ignorant and your facts lack substance.

Lowlife?? Thank you very much, but I won't play your game. I will say however that the website is under construction and isn't the same as it was 3 years ago when I bought my dog or 4 years ago when I started looking for the dog I wanted. You don't know my reasons for wanting this breed and for you to call me a lowlife? Nice, mature even. Also, just because someone lets their dogs jump and hang in trees doesn't mean anything either. Maybe it is fun for their dogs. Maybe it gives their dog an exercise that isn't dog fighting. They have pulling competitions too, I suppose those are directed for lowlife people also, just preparing their dogs for fighting. Please. I'll be honest, I've never lived in a dangerous community, but I will say that if for some unfortunate reason, I did, I would want the dog I have now. If for no other reason, than an intimidation factor.

ig·no·rant (gnr-nt)
adj.
1. Lacking education or knowledge.
2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
3. Unaware or uninformed.

Since you really like throwing this word around Subternal, I thought it would be useful for everyone to give the definition of ignorant.
Ruffian, do you want to start a club? You can be Dumb, Drogheda can be Dumber, and I'll be Ignorance Personified.

Thats the most intelligent post I've seen you write so far. You even got all your facts straight this time!! Childish and silly mind you, but Im learning not to expect much else.

There are responsible dog owners and then there are all the rest. The people with ethics clean up after the cash signs for eyeballs crowd and try to rehab the poor dogs.I have bred or owned Bullmastiffs that have caught burglers and none of them bit anyone. That was one of the priorities in the foundation of the breed, to produce a working dog that could take a man down and never need to bite to be effective.I do believe we should be breeding dogs that are as healthy as possible and with stable temperaments. A Bullmastiff with the energy level and vocalness of a terrier would not have the breed traits that a good quality Bullmastiff should have.I have nothing against any specific dog or dog breed, but I do have issues with the idea of giving a financial incentative to the people who run puppy mills or produce mixed breeds on purpose. Again I will stress it is difficult enough to produce consistantcy of soundness in temperament and health when someone has those factors as prioties, to produce the same results when ego or financial gain is the motivation is very unlikely. Now what happens to the poor dogs that didn't asked to be born and don't have the agressive traits desired by these people who want this "breed" for protection or the dogs that have physical defects? Are they put down ? Or due to the profit factor are they sold to some poor fool? Or are they dumped by the side of the road ?

Hey, I could not agree with you more. You are absolutely correct. On a serious note, you sound like you are passionate about dogs and a responsible breeder and owner and I may not like you but I can and do respect the fact that you have a genuine concern about the well being of these animals, regardless of the technicalities. I agree people should be breeding dogs to make the breed healthier physically as well as mentally.

I think it is a bit presumptious that you are still assuming that this breeder is out for profit. I am not the breeder of these dogs. I am an owner. I can't tell what does or doesn't happen behind closed doors to any breeder for that matter. It is my judgement based on my experiences with this breeder that I never once felt a desire to make money at the expense of this breed.

It is hard to have a battle of wits when your opponents are obviously unarmed .

Sub, I'm with you, I agree with what is being said about puppy mills and I don't agree with them either, but I didn't feel as though money was this breeders main concern with the dogs. I went to the kennel and I felt as though they did a great job taking care of their dogs and were only trying to help people, not just with the puppies, but also with training of dogs that weren't even from there.

Dusty, are you out there?

How much did the two of you pay for your dogs? How much of that money went into showing the breed? I'm guessing none since they aren't recognized and can't be shown. Maybe I'm wrong, are they recognized by any legitimate registry? Is your breeder working on creating a parent club? That would be pretty hard to do, if he is the only breeder of these dogs. How much money does he reinvest in health testing? Are any of your dogs' parents OFA cleared? Is your breed prone to C-section? Does this breeder do any sort of rescue? Since he is the only breeder, he can't invest the money he charges for puppies, in buying more top quality breeding stock. Those are the kind of things reputable breeders invest in. That's why they charge what they do and they very rarely make a profit. If your breeder isn't spending money on any of those, then where does the money go? That's why people are assuming he is breeding for profit, and I think that's a fair assumption.

I suggest you both read some of the posts by a member named Abbylynne. She has taken the time on several occasions to break down the cost of breeding the right way. As Drogheda has pointed out, many good breeders are involved in breed rescue. They use part of the money the get from their puppies for this, but often most of the rescue costs come from their own pocket. These are dogs that happen to be members of their breed, not dogs they themselves produced.

I don't think anyone has attacked the "breed." They first reply simply stated that they wouldn't own one. There are several breeds I wouldn't own and that's perfectly reasonable. They also questioned whether or not this was a real breed. I think that a fair question as well. I don't think there will ever be an agreement on designer breeds.


As for the creation of new breeds, in general I'm against it. The reason we have so many breeds has to do with certain purposes and more importantly geography. A hundred years ago, you couldn't ship dogs the way we do now. You couldn't jump in a car and drive cross country in a matter of days. People had to use the dogs they had available to create what they needed. In my area, pyrenees/anatolian crosses are common among farmers. The people that have them, created them solely for a working purpose. They don't give them cool sounding or cutsie names, they just call them a mix. They don't sell them to pet homes either. They are farm/ranch dogs meant for working homes. I can respect that. Creating another protection breed, in a country full of readily available working breeds, just doesn't make sense. Also Labs and Great Danes aren't protection breeds so why use them in the mix?

One more thing you should consider. No reputable breeder would sell their champion Labs, Great Danes or American Pit Bull Terriers/American Staffofdshire Terriers to someone who wants to creat a "new breed." Not even 30 years ago. Don't believe me, just look at the opions the reputable breeders here have. Odds are the original stock came from backyard breeders and puppymills. That or your breeder decieved those he got his original stock from. I'm not sure I would want to do business with someone like that. So yes, your dogs more than likely carry the genes for many serious health issues.

Okay, valid points all of them, however, I'm pretty sure that the breeder I got my dog from wasn't the originator of the breed, so, alot of your arguments don't really apply, I'm sure they apply however to whoever did originate the breed. On that note, I'm done arguing this issue. I like my dog, I wouldn't trade my dog, and I would buy another in a heartbeat, why? He is a great dog, does his job, keeping me and my husband company and protecting our household, he is healthy and I expect him to live a long happy life. I wouldn't trade him for the world, much like you wouldnt' trade your breeds. Happy Halloween.

WOW. I have been summoned from cyberland, and can see that i have been away FAR too long. lol Although reading through some of the replies here, i can also see that not much has changed. Still getting new posters here that think they know everything and when they get any kind of negativity, they resort to name calling.
Supernatal, i am sorry that you have something against people that do not go along with your way of thinking. I cant see where as many educated people would. Which means you must not have very many friends , and for that i feel sorry for you. The bottom line is really very simple philosophy. Canis panther = mutt = mixed breed. call it whatever name you would like to call it. why canis panther and not panther canis ? doesnt really matter does it ? it is still what it is. A mixture of breeds that someone decided to throw a name too. Put it right next to the peagles, bugons, and all the other mixtures that make up a mutt.
Glad you love your dogs. Everyone should love their animals. But call them what they are. Plain and simple, a mutt. And no need to call names here. We all have at least SOME level of mentality or we wouldnt be able to respond to this forum at all.

Oh and glad to see some of my old friends here, LPN, Pen, Ruffian, Rottluvr, Drogheda. You could learn something from these people supernatal. For one, how to post without becoming a pompous , know-it-all ass.

Great post Dusty! I couldn't agree with you more! Very well said in an adult and true factual way.

I haven't posted here in ages either. I saw this and just rolled my eyes....

Please tell me what is so wrong with a post from someone who wants to talk about the dog they own with others with the same dog? I'm sorry if I offended anyone to the point they needed to "roll their eyes" by trying to reach out to other owners of the same breed.

Climberchic, there is nothing wrong with you wanting to share. This thread started out innocent enough, with a few people questioning why anyone would intentionally mix 4 (!) breeds together, and a few people responding that they own an APBT.

I think what happened is, Subternal got involved with her panties all in a bunch, started attacking people, and it was all downhill from there.

My suggestion would be-why don't you start a new post and share pictures of your dog? I would love to see some.

I would like to share photos, but honestly, I don't know how. Any suggestions?

You can open a free account at http://www.photobucket.com upload your photos there, then copy/paste the URL in your posts here.