Most places have leash laws and other ordinances that require people to be responsible and humane pet owners. If these law were enforced, then there would be no need for breed bans, IMHO. Unfortunately, the authorities don't get involved until someone gets hurt. When an attack happens, the media never seems to mention how many calls were made to animal control before the incident. They never bother to mention whether or not the dog was altered, kept on a chain, allowed to run at large, kept in the house or isolated in a yard 24/7. Nope, they just tell you the breed and possible the sex. Many times they have the breed wrong anyway. Any black and tan dog becomes a Rottie and every muscular dog with a broad head is a pit. They always ask the owner about their dog, not other people who interacted with it. Have you ever heard about an attack where the dog's trainer or vet offered up that the dog "was a great family pet." Do you think a parent would admit to anyone, including themselves, that they ignored the warning signs of aggression and dominance issues?
A good example of how badly the media can get it wrong is the case of the pit that killed a young boy in San Fransisco. The original report was: "a loving family pet" killed his young owner for no apparent reason. As time when on it came out that the "loving family pet" was an untrained, young male, who was purchased for use as a stud dog. The owners planned to bring in some extra cash by pumping out pitbulls. They don't sound like responsible dog owners to me. Then it came out that the kid's mother left the kid locked in the unfinished basement, while she ran errands. She let the dogs have run of the house so they could mate. In the end the mom was charge with child abuse and other crimes. The whole story makes me wonder how often the real story doesn't get published.
oh my goodness. That is terrible. I hadn't heard about that story. I'm glad the truth came out about her and her treatment of her child. It sounds like she treated the dogs better. Personnally I think breed bans are sad, and just an attempt at a quick fix, which really doesn't fix anything. Thank you for responding though. I'm going to do a paper on it and would like some other people's opinions on it.
I think breed bans are ridiculous, and totally unfair. No one breed as a whole is an endangerment to society at large. I think the persecution against APBT's is wrongly directed towards the dog, and should be made the responsibility of the owner, everytime. As for Rottweilers, the same thing is happening with them, as well as dozens of other dogs. BSL is here in Canada, the nearest to me being Winnipeg, Manitoba. Funnily enough, there are quite a few APBT's there though. We have protested BSL at the legislature in Winnipeg, without succcess. Everyone I know in Winnipeg are terrified of big dogs no matter what they are. It just shows the level of intelligence in the government is sub -par at best. I also think there should be some type of education in the schools,pertaining to dogs, especially since there are so many children who are not brought up with dogs, and a lot who tease them.
I was reading an article the other day about breed bans the other day and it talked about a place in KY that had a BSL and even though it mostly targeted "pit bull breeds" it also threw in rotties too, even though only one man owned one in the entire county. 78 year old man. But they just wanted to prevent anything, just in case. Talk about ridiculous. Ya know what Pen, I think education in school is a great idea. There are alot of kids who don't grow up around dogs and don't know how to properly act around them. Just yesterday I was taking my dante out for a walk and he was "attacked"(jokingly) by what I'm guessing was a three year old. He just came running across the playground near the walking path. His dad just yelled from across the way, "he just wants to pet your dog". He never got up from the bench. Now, luckily for the little boy and the dad, dante is great with kids and always has been, he just stood there while the boy ran up to him and started petting him. Dante was huge compared to the boy. The man, in my opinion should not have let his little boy do that. What if for some reason, my dog wasn't good with kids? The man had no way of knowing; I was a complete stranger. Stopping the boy while trying to restrain your dog could be difficult too if your dog was not fully trained. The boy really young and fear was unknown to him. It really could have been a disaster under different circumstances, and whose fault would it have been? The dog owners of course. I know some dogs that would be frightened at someone, child or not, running full speed at them. What if I had just adopted him from a shelter? There are so many possiblities that could have been disasterous. Of course the paper would have only read, boy maimed by dog. Education for some parents is needed too apparently.
Climberchic, I have 2 dogs who would have tried to bite that kid, had it happened to me. Of course I would have had to pick my dogs up, and yell at the kid's dad. 2 of my dogs are scared of children, and can be aggressive if cornered, mostly because of the pack of kids in my neighborhood who think it's hilarious to jump around screaming at the dogs, poking sticks through the fence, and throwing stones. Thanks to them, I now have to build a total privacy fence on one whole side of my property.It infuriates me watching children tormenting dogs. I also have the task of trying to change my dog's attitude toward kids, which is not easy. The kids in question, (one family) have a mixed breed dog, that is tied to the dog house I gave them, on about 4 feet of chain. Before the poor dog was left out in the winter, and many a time, I brought her into my garage.I've never seen that family take that dog for a walk, and the mother weighs about 275...she could use a walk, everyday. Just lately I warned that woman that there are coyotes in town, and her dog is a sitting duck.The dog is still chained up. If the parents are that ignorant, it's not much of a surprise that their children will be too. I've bent over backwards, trying to be nice to those brats, explaining that if they would just walk past quietly the dogs would'nt even bark. Nothing works.I've also phoned the mother, and she tells me her kids are good with dogs. Right.
I believe BSL exist because because people make demands that legislators and city councilmen "do something" to solve perceived problems. The only thing government is really equipped to do is enact laws and create restrictions. Unfortunately, restrictive laws don't educate, nor do they transform people so that they act responsibly.
Government can try, but it will never be able to legislate away ignorance.
Passing laws does nothing if they aren't enforced. Many of our laws that treat breeds equally regardless of breed. aren't enforced b/c the legislature won't provide funding. They are all overpaid. Being a politician is at best a parttime job, and I believe that's being generous. There is very little accountability in government these days. There's always money for their salaries, security, expensive transportation, etc. but not for animal control. They pass breed bans b/c it's the easy thing to do. It shuts up the ignorant and the lawmakers look like they are doing something.
What do you Guys think about the argument of "Blame the Deed not the Breed" additude. Or, it's not the dogs it's the owners...
I love the pitbull it's fanatistic accomplishment of selective breeding.
But. if it's the owners and not the breed, how come only stupid people seem to buy Pitbulls, how come there are not more fatalities by Labs, poodles and Goldens? because is it the breed. It very much is the breed. It's a powerful, powerful dog. With the power to kill or severly maim.
It also is very much the owners. People are always using words like "aggresive" or "Mean" these words insinuate the dog is capable of morale choice.
Most dog bites are from dogs that are afraid, and dogs that are high in drive: samething Ceasar calls the redzone. There is some trigger in the enviorment i.e, skateboard, another dog...that sends the dog into a frenzy. They are beyond thought, they are just reactive now.
Dogs that have been to work, as well as fight have a high probablity they are going to have this heavily in there temperment.
I train Beligan Malinois. A dog famous for being high drive. Pits have this in thier bloodlines also. But the 2 things that seperates these dogs is; one a pitbull can bite much, much harder.
And the owners. The owners of malinois are usually people whom are looking to compete in a sport, or use the dog for real work. They are fully aware of the dogs propensity to get triggered and possibly bite. So, they take great caution with thier animals. Not to say all owners of malis are like this but the majority are. Pitbulls, not so...many owners negate, flat out deny or ignorant to canines behavior particluar with there breed that they take little if any precaution.
I think the argument of the Pro-pit folks that are screamed loud about the dog being misrepresented are not being honest with themselves. They breed is in fact very capable of biting possibly causing a fatality. And I think till they realize this thier arguments for the breed are going to contiue to fall on deaf ears. The rest of the world is noticing that these dogs are not just victims...but in fact capable of things that are causing problems. I think the pro-pit people would stand a much better chance of protecting thier breed by trying to cooperate with legislature in trying to reduce the problem instead of trying to be in conflict with law makers. a few things need to happen
1. Admit there is problem and the dog is capable of biting to point of a fatality. 2. form a group ot advocates for the breed that opposes BSL for the pit. 3. Provide an alternative.
I believe a dog's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment he holds dear, is when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-with a ball in his mouth."
Gunny, I'm totally against BSL because of one fact, and that is, you cannot take one breed, or many breeds as in the case of legislation in some places, and paint them all with the same brush. I believe there has been an explosion of APBT's with clueless owners, because of a variety of reasons. The gang populations in both of our countries have sky-rocketed. Since you are in the same field of work as I am in, you must surely witnessed the types of people in these gangs. Most of them have picked the APBT as their mascot. I don't think that it helps when more than one APBT breeder makes a website with tough hard hitting rappers all over their site. This is often (not always) the music that these gangs listen to. Look at the explosion of drug dealers, users, and ultimately deaths that have occurred, and look at the dogs those people pick. They have no knowledge whatsoever about dogs, since many of them grew up in the not so nice parts of cities. I really do think that a great number of stupid people are guilty of owning an APBT, and not taking responsibility for learning about the history, or the nature of the dog. I believe the influx of APBT's is partly because a market has been found for them, and BYB's and mills are pumping them out by the thousands, lowering the price, and making the dog affordable for most people. There are dogs that have the same potential for injury, the Presa Canario for one. There are many more, but they don't come as cheaply as the average BYB APBT. I do believe that there should be conditions imposed on people who own certain breeds, but it's a gigantic task. I also think there should be jail time imposed on people who let their dogs run free, and the dog ends up in a fighting, or attack situation. I believe that the government should come down a lot harder on BYB's and puppy mills,since right now they are totally rampant, and responsibility free for the ill bred dogs that they are pawning off on the public.I'm talking about all breeds now, not just the ones who have the potential to maim and kill. I also think that there should be an education component in the schools to teach the kids who have never owned a dog of any kind, about how to look after one properly, and also the many dangers of owning dogs, the history of those dogs, their original purpose, in fact a well rounded course about dogs in general. Just my opinion.
I agree with both of you. I don't oppose certain beneficial restrictions for certain breeds. I would like for those restrictions to spread to all dogs, eventually. I'm not talking about keeping them muzzled or in a covered enclosure, but rather requiring obedience classes and some form of dog behavior classes. We need more available and affordable obedience classes that are at least supervised by experts. We need better public education on responsible dog ownership. I think we need harsher punishment for owners that let their dogs run at large, period. Why wait until after something has happened? "An ounce of prevention...." If that starts with pitbulls and Rotties and then spreads, that's fine with me. I also think there should some sort of mandatory spay neuter for any dogs caught running loose more than once. If you're not responsible enough to keep your pet confined, you're not responsible enought to breed. I will never forget being at my local shelter when two people came to pick up their pits. The dogs were picked up by AC, running at large, with heavy chains hanging from their necks. There were signs on there kennels warning all shelter staff that the dogs were very aggressive. The owners were allowed to walk right in a get there dogs without paying a fine or even getting a severe lecture. People like that really shouln't be able to have dogs period, much less large and powerful ones.
Pits seem to be an anomily(sp?) in that most of them are unregistered and come from BYBs. They have different registries and (I'm assuming) different standards. The ADBA pits I have seen look nothing like the Am. Staffs I've seen, yet many people (especially the proponents of BSL) consider both pit bulls. If I were to look in the classified this week there would be as many ads for pits as all the other breeds confined. Most of them aren't registered with any registry.
It bugs when people insist that any dog that has attacked "must have been abused." People don't understand that overindulgence and a lack of discipline can be just as dangerous as isolation and beatings. I dont' think pits are the breed for inexperienced dog owners, heck most of them can't handle a Lab. Why else would there be so many of them in shelters. Then you look at how out of control so many toy breed are, and it's pretty obvious that pits shouldn't be anywhere near as popular as they are. I do blame the owners for their dogs actions. They should know how to handle the dog before they bring one home. They should continually educate themselves about the breed. I didn't stop educating myself about Rotties the day I brought Harley home. Most importantly, they should know their dogs and not put them in situations that will lead to disaster.
I hate the breed bans, I have a bumber sticker that says " ban stupid people, not dogs". I truly belive that. It doesn't have to be a big nasty dog to attack people, and parents should watch their childern. I have a mini poodle who I adopted from poodle rescue. She had been abused badly when she was just a little puppy, I got her around 1yr. The lady had childern, and complained the puppy was always nipping at her childern, and chewing on their toys. Well to make a long story short, I was walking her, and this little boy comes running up to her. I pick her up and tell the parent she will bite. The kid wont go away, and the parent would do anything thing. Finally as I am walking away with her in my arms, the kid run up pets her and she bites him in the nose. It turned into a huge battle that I did win in the end, but whos fault is that, not my dogs. That was the idiot parent who didn't listen and the child who insisted on petting the cute dog. If she was a pit or rottie, she probably would have been put to sleep, why, becuase the first person who owned her didn't bring her up right? People need to learn how to properly care for their pet, and people need to learn how to train their kids
minminnies- Dont believe everything you here. I watched 12 minutes of that video and alot what they are claiming to be "facts" is a bunch of bullcrap. Furthermore that video is crap. It does not mention irresponsible owners it only downs the breed like most ignorant people and the media always do.
HAHAHA it says that it is genetic for the APBT to attack people.
I agree with rottluvr. I just think it should be a little harder to own a dog in general. I think any dog is capable of biting people, and not even just that. I get so mad when I walk my dog, on a leash, and a dog runs out of a yard and tries to start a fight. Just last week I was walking my dogs when two loose dogs came running up and bit my dog. I felt bad for the dogs but a little pissed off at the owners. both dogs had collars, i actually looked at one and called the number, a child answered the phone and had a discussion with a parent. they didn't seem to worried. (ok Im getting off the subject here) I just think that maybe there should be a law that makes it harder to breed, ensure that those who want to breed are willing to put the work and effort into it to make it legal. I think these people who are truly into breeding for the love of the breed dont just give their pups to anyone. I don't know how, but have a law making it harder to adopt as well. If you get people who are serious about owning and training good dogs, I bet there would be less bites in any breed. I guess this could also infringe on some civil liberties, it is a tough topic.
The hardest years are those between 10 and 70. -- Helen Hayes
I totally agree with Bans on certain breeds of dogs NOT being the answer to the problem of IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERS! I have know Pits and Rots alike that were well trained, cared for and the most loving dogs any one could ever hope for. It was because their OWNERS were responsible and had their dogs trained properly. It makes me angry every time I hear a Pit attack such as was on Channel 11 here last night that took place in Ft.Worth. One third of a little girl's scalp was ripped off by a Pit. Her 10yr old brother, hailed a hero for chasing the dog off, saved her from the attack. But nothing was said about possibly the dog was antagonized by maybe the 10yr old first, or some other kids that might have been around. Was it known to have been aggressive before this one attack? All that was reported and left to the viewers imagination was that this awful, mean Pit Bull, dog attacked this little girl, injuring her severely and she was "saved" by her 10yr old brother. There is talk of banning ANY known aggressive breed dogs in the Dallas/Ft.Worth Metroplex and many have been shot and killed by police officers since the seven years I've been here. Or put down at a vet's office for attacking a stranger. But the complete stories are never told which leaves one wondering if the killings were really necessary or just desired because of what breed the dogs were. Banning any breed of dog is NOT the answer, obviously. Banning certain people from owning ANY animal after being cited once for cruelty, harboring a vicious dog or cited more than once for lesser offenses might be a better answer. Because these kind of people obviously do NOT train or take care of their animals properly!
Well said! Just so you know, they cannot pass breed bans in Texas. We have a statewide dangerous dog law here and local authorities can not pass laws that contradict state law. The law applies to all dogs regardless of breed. Unfortunately, the dangerous dog law isn't enforced well enough.