Out of curiosity, why was it ok to create new breeds of dogs by mixing existing breeds a century or so ago, but not now? I'm just wondering why people say it isn't ok and that dogs that are so-called designer breeds are mutts and that the ancestors of today's breeds who were actually designer dogs of other names weren't mutts? To me the only difference between today's designer dogs and the ancestors to today's recognized breeds is stupid names (please come up with more creative and mature names) and the century they are being bred in. I personally do not breed these dogs. I actually have jack russells that two of my daughters love to show, and wouldn't dream of mixing them with anything else, but I still don't understand the controversy. Please enlighten my as to why it is wrong. I know that the breeders need to make sure the two breeds are compatible physically and tempermentally. And they need to follow a good code of ethics. Other than that?
my opinion.. they are only breeding for looks and money. dogs that were mixed to make breeds back in the day were long thought out[or maybe an accident that was awesome] and had a purpose/job to be bred for.
A century ago if you needed a herding dog, you bred the dogs that showed a propensity towards herding, it was for working ability alone, nothing else. You could not ship a herding dog from half way around the world because it was not possible, it is today. They were not created to be pets, even many of the toy breeds were created as working animals, not as a fancy new thing to match your outfit. There is no need to create new breeds today as there are way more than enough companions waiting and dieing in shelters across north america.
I wouldn't have a problem with someone working to create another breed if it was created to fill a special need. I would want this person to do health screening on all the foundation stock and not sell the offspring for a high price as a new breed. It takes many generations to set type. There is also the issue of a closed gene pool that can hide dangerous recessive diseases and health conditions and also contribute to temperament problems. There is a science to breeding great dogs and most of the people who breed 'designer" dogs are not making a commitment in time and money to create a truly new breed, the motivating factor is profit.I have a strong dislike of anyone who advertises cross-breds as healthier due to hybrid vigor, this is true only thru a fluke not a consistant result.Not every puppy that is the result of crossing a poodle with another breed will have the non-shedding coat of the poodle, but I see this type of ad daily.
The people who breed the mixed breeds of today, do not work towards a long term goal or standard. They put two dogs together and sell them. I would have no problems with any of them if they were trying to devolup a new breed. Even if its sole purpose was companionship. As far as I am concerned a couple of new breeds with non-sheding coats that do not look like a poodle are a neat idea. But they do not do that. The pick any dog breed it with another, and then give it a cute name. If they were trying to devolup the breed, they would then take the pups with the desired charateristics and breed them together. People don't do that, that is why the general canine public gets upset. They just pump out puppies with no intention of moving forward. They sell to anyone, they don't care who as long as they get their money. They are not always honest about non-sheding and if the dog sheds and the new owner puts it in the shelter, who cares. they got their money why should they worry about.
In the old days, breeds were made for function. Now they are "created" for money and/or because some moron thought of a "cute" name. I mean, what is the function of a Puggle? A YorkiePoo? Or a Labradoodle? There is none that some other existing breed doesn't already cover. Like Drogheda said, if there is a purpose for a new breed that hasn't already been covered, then have at it. But otherwise, its just money and vanity.
Even if you are on the right track, you will still get run over if you just sit there. (Will Rogers)
People who create "new/designer breeds" nowadays are motivated by profit and some sick curiosity to see what they pups will look like. They kind of remind me of Dr. Moreau (The Island of Dr. Moreau.) Neither is a good reason to bring more dogs into this world. On top of that, they lie about their dogs. The call them "purebred" b/c their parents are registered. They use bogus registries, don't bother to write a standard or form a breed club. Theoretically, it would be acceptable to creat a new breed, if you were willing to put in the decades of work it would take. Most of the people creating new breeds now, don't want to wait that long to cash in. They charge huge sums of money for "healthy, hypoallergenic, perfect family pets, that have low maintenence coats."
THEIR IS NO SUCH THING AS A "HYPOALLERGENIC DOG." Yes, some dogs produce fewer allergens, but that's not the same thing as hypoallegenic. Also many of the breeds that are recommended for allergy sufferers, require frequent grooming and bathing, which removes allergens. Many of these mixes have terrible temperments and crippling joint problems. I recently posted a topic about how a lot of groomers don't like Lab/Golden, poodle crosses b/c of their terrible coats and their owners' inability to keep up with them. I don't understand getting a poodle mix if you don't like poodles either. The mix is still going to be part poodle. Poodles are extremely versatile dogs. They can do just about any job,are super intellegent and can be clipped just about any way you want. I honestly don't know why poodles were crossed with labs in the first place when a poodle could be every bit as good of a guide dog as a lab. There are plenty of mixes sitting at shelters b/c they didn't live up to their greeders ridiculous sales pitch.
Rottluver and others have really stated the point much better than I. Having a puggle that had was scheduled to be pts he or better stated WE were lucky enough to rescue him, and love him to death. This so called "designer" breed was created by a NewYorker who wanted a PugBeagle "smaller" dog fit for an apartment! He is wonderful, however, that being said, we RESCUED him, as a designer dog, I think/hope they have run their course and people are back rescueing or adopting dogs. Designer dogs at best are the best of the breeds at worst are the worst of the breeds. We have a mix of both but are working on the bad points the point I am trying to make is we got him from a family that got it for their 4 year old. Hello!!! They need a lot of work. so does a 4 year old child, not a good mix. At least we saved and love a great dog!! Don't want to know how many "created breeds" go unwanted, unloved, and turned in? Of course IMO. but you asked Best to you and your's!
Alot of what I'm seeing shouldn't be directed to designer dog breeders alone. I see these people being singled out because they are an easy target, but as far as people who are throwing two dogs together to see what they will get or to make a profit that applies just as much to purebred breeders as well as designer dog breeders. Don't get me wrong I know not all breeders of purebred dogs do that, but the majority of breeders out there breeding purebreds are backyard breeders throwing whatever they can get their hands on together. Just like most designer dog breeders. There are a few individuals out there though that are putting thought, time and committment into creating a new breed, just as there are pure breed breeders doing the same.I agree that there are two many dogs now, but if you point a finger at anyone for increasing the dog population you have to point the finger at every breeder even those that are legit. Yes many might insist on a spay neuter contract, but they produced a puppy that wasn't here before that they are putting that contract on. Granted a decent breeder will not only make sure the dog is going to a good home, but will also provide a home for the dog themselves if it ever needs one in its lifetime. You won't see that in most breeders. My point is just that why is it that fingers are always being pointed at a whole group when it's only individuals within the group that cause the problems? Not every person in a given group is a bad egg, unless of course we are talking about devil worshippers. No contest there, but off topic. So am i wrong?
For one thing, it takes at least 20 years for a breed to become standard....I don't think maltipoos or goldendoodles have been around that long. Many purebreds were a result of mixed breeds but the breeders worked to breed a dog that meets a certain standard and serves a purpose. Purebreds are called purebreds because you can reliably predict what they will look like, what their temperament will be and if there are any known health issues. They were bred for a purpose whether it be herding, hunting, pointing or companionship. With a mix, you cannot predict with reliability what the dog will look like as an adult or what their temperament will be because you don't know how much of either breed has been passed on. They say that if the dog looks more like one breed, its temperament will be similar as well. But that's about the only rule you can apply to mixed breeds.
Yes there are unscrupulous breeders of purebreds as well. One only has to look at the breeding of the Labrador Retriever to know that. What used to be a very reliable breed is now a crapshoot because they've been so overbred by people who want to capitalize on a popular dog. So you can put unscrupulous breeders of purebreds and mixed breeds together in one group if you want. These unscrupulous breeders of designer dogs and purebreds are just taking two dogs and breeding them together because people think they're cute. There is no health or genetic testing. Just a roll of the dice. But as a result of their unpredictability, they often end up in shelters. Just as some purebreds which were bred unscrupulously.
As other posters have said, a good breeder strives to maintain and improve the breed. A good breeder will not breed a dog that has tested for a condition or disease or behavioural deviation if you will. One could speculate that even good breeders are unethical because they are adding to the overpopulation of dogs. However, if there weren't any irresponsible breeding of purebreds or designer dogs, maybe the shelters and rescues wouldn't be overcrowded and maybe there would be less puppies and dogs being tortured in puppy mills. Any person who wants a dog would get a dog with reliable traits and looks and performance. Good breeders don't make huge profits; they do it because they simply enjoy their breed and want to see their breed to exemplify what they should and survive. I go to pet stores to see the dogs and the prices they charge for mixed breeds is atrocious.
It's not an issue of purebred vs. mixed breeds. Many people on this forum have mixed breeds which they have rescued. It's the irresponsible breeding that they are against.
In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semi human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog. ~Edward Hoagland
Takes longer than 20 years generally. Some dedicated cocker x poodle and golden x poodle people have been at it longer than that. They found what they wanted still won't breed true, nor was it becoming standardized in looks.
The silken windhound people started in 1975. I think they had a slight advantage sticking to only sighthounds to create what they wanted.
~I'm changing my naughty ways to naughtier ones..~
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I agree that it isn't purebred vs mixed. That's pretty much my point. So many people jump on the anti designer dog bandwagon with the slogan that they are unscrupulous and adding to the shelter population because they are mixing breeds. That is a very narrow minded slogan. The slogan should add "just like many purebred dog breeders do" and it should be the anti unscrupulous breeder bandwagon which would include people breeding both pure and mixed breeds. As far as temperment goes, it would be alot easier to know the temperment of a mixed breed if someone who was doing the mixing used two perfect examples of two tempermentally compatible breeds aong with them being physically compatible. And I do agree that the prices charged for these dogs are totally outrageous. I saw one website that touted the fact that it sold dogs to all these different celebrities.The dogs were horribly over priced. Thousands of dollars. I couldn't tell if it more expensive to buy the tiniest or the ugliest dogs since it varied. Now that is definately an unscrupulous breeder if i ever saw one. Those dogs definately looked like something thrown together with only one thought- PROFIT.
You will find most of the members on this site are every bit against puppymillers and BYBs as they are "designer dog" breeders. This thread is about "new breeds." Had it been about new breeds and unscrupulous purebred breeders people would have started in on that group too. The thing is there are ways to differentiate a good purebred breeder from a bad one. Good purebred breeders do health testing, breed to the standard, show and/or work their dogs, screen buyers, and help educate the public. I've yet to find one mutt breeder that does this. Instead they use some excuse, like hybrid vigor, to get out of it.
Maybe you haven't seen one yet because they aren't advertising to make money like the others. It's possible. There are lots of folks in this world. There's surely a few decent folks out there that are truly trying to develop a new breed for a real reason that they see and trying to do it the right way. Anr perhaps you don't see them because they are keeping the pups that show the qualities they want to encourage in order to breed the nxt generation and are finding non breeding homes where the best home is more important than the money from the puppy. It's possible. Not too mention that alot of breeders that may have been at it for many years might not be computer literate and so don't have websites for that reason. There are still alot of older breeders who like doing things the old-fashioned and proven way :)