I've been researching tons of breeders for a miniature australian shepherd, and for any breeder I might actually consider, I always read their contract. I can't tell you how many I've read in the past day let alone the past few months! My heads spinning! I've never seen a contract saying that "wormy stools are normal for puppies/dogs and is not covered by the warranty"
Is that a red flag or is that pretty normal? I would think that since the contract also states that their shots and worming were UTD that when I initially bring home a puppy from them, the last thing I would expect is wormy stools. Logic tells me if I have to question something like this, it's probably a warning--or I'm just paranoid. Thoughts?
***Edited By: rozzie on 1/8/2009 5:08:15 PM*** Reason: grammar edit
Do you mean the health guarrantee will not cover if the pup develops a case of worms later on or it will not cover you bringing it home and it already has worms? There's a big difference there. Since they can pick up worms almost anywhere even right after being wormed it makes sense that a month after you get the pup you can't expect the breeder to take it back or pay for treatment if it has worms. If you get the pup home, however, and the first day you see wormy stools the breeder should cover any additional worming treatment necessary. Any time I got a dog or pup their first stop was to our vet's office for a checkup. Not a week or 2 later but right away. If the breeder claims to have wormed the pup you need to ask what was used and what worms it is meant to kill as all wormers do not kill all worms.
Ruffian, I think I know what you're trying to say about the "mini aussie" thing. Is it possible to buy a smaller Aussie from a normal Aussie litter? We just want a dog that is just as smart as the Aussie, and looks like the Aussie, but we don't want to end up with a 50lb dog. I understand that creating mini aussies by breeding runts with other runts isn't exactly doing the breed any good, but surely there must be the occasional "real" Aussie that is on the smaller side, right? That's all I'm looking for and it hasn't been too easy to find.
arachyd1 - I've already decided against this breeder for other reasons, but I re-read their health guarantee and it doesn't even say anything about the time period in which wormy stools wouldn't be covered. Since it's not covered at all, I'm assuming they don't cover it even if you take it to the vet the same day you take it home and it has worms. There were other health conditions they didn't cover in their contract that looked very puppy-millish so I am avoiding these folks at all costs. Anyone saying they don't cover kennel cough shouldn't be breeding or selling any of their animals. That's just ludicrous. Obvious BYB or puppy mill.
Worms are a simple thing to take care of and IMO the last thing to judge a purchase by. There are very important things that should be in that health guarantee. If your puppy did have worms, it takes all of a $2-$5 pill to clear them. Hardly worth fighting for. Look at the important things like genetic guarantees, etc. Worms happen in puppies and adults and cheap to fix.
I agree with the moderator here. Alot of the lemon laws even specifically exclude parasites. It's too hard to say without any history from the breeder why it is there. Could mean nothing, could be bad. Sometimes we put things there to protect ourselves, but doesn't mean we wouldn't take care of the situation if we at all in any way thought it existed when the pup left us. It's there to protect us from the unreasonable buyers. I live in vegas, and have worked with animals all my life, there are alot of things in my contract to protect me from the things I've seen people consistantly blame the seller for that didn't have anything to do with them. I hope that I haven't misjudged anybody I've placed my 'grandkids' with, but you never know, and the stronger the guilt, the stronger the "It's your fault!" syndrome seems to be. None of these things have happened to me, but I am well aware of the possibilities. "My puppy died of pnemonia because there was fluid in the lungs, Too many times we have found out this means the puppy drowned. - Parvo, long after incubation cleared seller, pup was all over town after extensively told why not to. - Limping, everyone knows it was fine when it left, but there must be some problem with the puppy, it's not limping because of it's newly broken leg ........ Hypoglycemia caused by care and not a liver shunt (this one happens alot), and it goes on and on and on. I would ask breeders for any references, and try to ensure that they are not family members or friends, and actually purchaser's as well. Even ask if they have kept any offspring from other litters and ask to view them too. And if you are not comfortable with the situation for any reason, and they can not adequately explain to your satisfaction, don't choose them to get your companion from. Sorry to go on and on and on, I do that :-).
Puppies shouldgo home worm free. But just like infants, puppies like to put everything in there mouth, so it is easy for them to pick them back up easily. I start my pups and mom on a deworming program at 3 wks old and continue every other week until they go to there new homes. I suggest that all new owners keep up with this schudule until around 6 months of age. But then that too depends on where the dogs are allowed and if they are like mine use to be on the ranch, hunting and killing stuff. This is a great place to reinfestate. So worming is an ongoing process. My contract requires you take your new pup to a vet of your choice within 48 hours of picking up your puppy.(I make exceptions for weekends and holidays) But failure to do so could void your health guarantee.
I had a woman who took a UKC REG male who left here with two testicles and a current health certificate issued by a vet. Never took him for his 48 hr check, openly admits she did not take him for his 48 hr check, and then one week before his first birthday contacted me and told me he only had one nut. And DEMANDED an AKC Reg female to replace him. NOT happening. And even though my contract said I did not have to replace the dog, I did offer her a UKC registered male replacement. Funny that was not good enough. Something fishy going on with this one.
He's your friend,your partner,your defender your dog.You are his life,his love,his leader. He will be yours faithful and true to the last beat of his heart.You owe it to him to worthy of such devotion
Yes Ruffian we know if it isn't AKC, it isn't a breed. I have been in that argument with you.
I personally think it is a breeders choice, and not worth the fight. I have bought pups from good breeders that had worms, and ones that didn't. It takes more then one time to deworm pups, at least that was what I found. If I had someone complain about them I would gladly give them the few bucks for the meds. My pups are dewormed several times, and I have not had any problems.
Rozzie--Yes you can find small pups out of full sized aussies. It is how we started. No one can guarentee the size will stay small. A runt is not always undersized. It can and most of the time will get just as big as it should. The problems is the full sized aussie of today has gotten much bigger then it was. When I bred them, my 65lb female was huge. Now they are reaching sizes of 75lbs+, and males bigger.
Hmmm, this is really interesting to think about. I would want a guarantee that covered hereditary and genetic conditions, as well as things that should be covered by vaccines (parvo). If a guarantee covers those kinds of things, why would it need any exclusions at all? I personally would be turned off by a guarantee that had a lot of exclusions. The ones that only cover "life threatening" conditions bug me too. HD, MVD and other issues aren't necessarily "life threatening", but they can be screened for and can expensive to treat. I think those things should be covered by a warrantee b/c it affects your pet's quality of life and they could've been prevented by the breeder. I also would never sign a contract that required me to return the pup for a refund or another pup, if a health problem came up. I think breeders should be willing to give a partial refund, depending on the severity of the problem, and let you keep your family member. After all if they did the tests this would be a rare occurance, right? I think if you look at enough contracts you can get an idea of whether the breeder is trying to wriggle out of all liability or if they stand behing their dogs. I personally, would want to look at the documents proving the dog was OFA'd, cerf'ed and had the proper bloodwork done, but that's just me. I think a breeder has a responsibility to worm a pup, but I don't think it should be covered in a guarantee. I still don't understand why it would be excluded though?