Unlike Maxpup, I believe that they are trying to make smokers feel bad. If you go to a county fair, they have a beer garden not far from the parking lot. But, try to smoke a cigarrette, and you're treated like a leper. Go to Disneyland, the "Approved" smoking areas are shoved back in a corner between two buildings.
When I go to a park with the family, I go off to a bench or table by myself where I can smoke but still keep an eye on the kids. I don't know how many times I have been griped at or given dirty looks by people who arrived AFTER I did. Hey, I got here when there was no onle else nearby. They chose to stand by a smoker with a lit cigarrette. Deal with it.
As far as perfumes and such, there are many people out there that are severly allergic to them and the smell will cause them to go in to Anaphylactic Shock, stop breathing, and potentially die. Others, like myself, get migranes from these. These are immediate reactions, not potential reactions that may occur in the future.
I am all for the government passing laws against criminals that would make our homes safer (as long as it actually works, but that is a different tryade), but banning smoking in all public locations (which has happened in some cities here in Oregon), is boderlining on legislating morality. Where do we draw the line? When do we, as a populace, say that they have gone to far in legislating what we, as adults, can and can not do? This is starting down a very slippery slope and if we're not careful, we could have a nasty fall.
MAxpup--you were right on track. If we let them super tax cigs, of course they will soon want to super tax fast food and other foods that have contributed to the obesity epidemic in this great land! I see way more huge fat people than I do smokers! If other people can eat themselves into medical crisis without paying big taxes on fast food, why can't I smoke without the stiff tax?
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read!! Groucho Marx
Razz...We try and eat healthy in our family. We eat fresh fruits and vegetables....It is a killer on the wallet. I can go to the store and buy 2 bags of fruits and vegetables for the same amount I could get 4-5 bags of junk....What is wrong with this....I am all for higher tax on the crap stuff...fast food is number one!!! The problem is the government can make more money off of cigarettes, alcohol, and tobacco products... As far as the smoking areas set in far away places...a previous poster did mention that smokers were supposedly the minority....therefore, the majority of americans are non smoking and typically not fond of the smoke...I am guessing the smoking areas are far away as to keep the smoke from "enterances" to places.
gbrox...I beg to differ....If you would have read my post before, I work in a neonatal intensive care unit where premature babies have literally STOPPED breathing when being held by parents that smell from cigarette smoke...There is proven research and articles we give to these parents on the detrimental effects of second hand smoke and smoke smell on clothes.
Maxpup, frankly, I don't believe it. Second-smoke I could see would probably be an issue for premature infants, as would day-to-day dirty air (including perfumes, body odor, human gas, even carbon dioxide, etc., etc.). Smoke smell? I don't buy it. How could a smell (any smell) be proven to cause anyone to stop breathing? How could the researchers rule out everything else that may have led to the issue and determine that smoke smell was the catalyst for premature infants whose health is already compromised just by the fact of being premature? But I'm willing to be enlightened. Please direct me to the research and articles you referred to. From the internet research I've done, I don't see anything linking smoke smell (any ANY smell) to premature infants' breathing cessation. Thanks.
***Edited By: gbroxon on 3/26/2009 12:18:06 PM*** Reason: Add
First, a premature infant is just that...premature. They are not fully developed in every aspect....neromuscular, cardiovascular, circulatory, digestive..etc need I go on. Premature infants are very prone to having apneic spells (when they stop breathing) due to the prematurity. When an infant is stressed, or startled, they can tend to have an autonomic response and stop breathing. Their bodies are not mature enough to trigger the brain to breath constantly...The actual diagnosis is Apnea of Prematurity....We have to provide respiratory support, and medications to these infants to help them breath....(as well as the fact their lungs are not mature either.) I would recommend you look up Neonatal Network, Academy of Neonatal Nursing just to name a few oragnizations that provide magazines for neonatal nurses and physicians. Now...to the smoke on clothing....I have had to stimulate and infants several times when parents are holding them due to the strong smoke....What is required is called stimulation. We rub the babies backs to stimulate them to breath. (The medication infants are placed on does the same thing) If no intervention is done to stimulate the baby, they could die....I find that a pretty severe side effect from just smoke on clothing. I suggest you research the internet on the websites provided. I guarantee you will find something on smoking and smoke on clothing and the environment. I won't even begin to go over the long term effects such as asthma, and allergies.... I am not trying to make something up...It is what I see every day. Oh and another thing, Ironically, we have numerous parents with severe body odor, and I have never seen a baby become apneic from the body odor.... ****just googled premature babies and smoke on clothes...just a start with my first google...the info is there..
Sorry, you are assuming that the smoke smell is the problem. You can't know that it's the smoke smell that's causing the issue. Although I haven't known many people with preemies, all of those infants experienced apnea at one point or another. And, guess what? None of the parents smoke. Apnea is a common premature infant syndrome. They're preemies, just about anything can be an apnea trigger.
I don't see that you've referenced any websites, but I will Google premature babies and smoke on clothes. I didn't come up with anything on premature babies and smoke smell, but, like I said, I'm willing to be enlightened.
In Googling "premature babies" and "smoke on clothes," I came up with 9 hits. None of which were studies or referred to research regarding the alleged dangers of premature babies breathing smoke-smelling air. I will agree that ANY polluted air might cause anyone with a compromised respiratory system distress.
I'll take your word for it, Maxpup, and stay away from premature babies with my smoke-smelling clothes. Everybody else will have to deal with it, the same way I deal with your personal smells.
I am so sorry...I assumed you wanted facts. I will just say, I have seen babies with no apneas charted at all for days, then when being held by a loved one with smoke smell they have had an apneic spell. I realize you say you know people that have premature babies...well, I work it everyday of my life...read the article from the USA today. It talks about the amount of nicotine picked up from clothing, ducts, hair...etc. They have found traces of nicotine in babies hair when the parents don't smoke around them...I am willing to enlighten you more on this topic, however I wish we could stick to the tax on items at that was the original posts intentions. I by no means am trying to say I know everything about smoke, I am only speaking on what I have witnessed every day at work, as well as research....we do have to teach parents on the effect of smoke on infants...again I will only mention...allergies, apnea, SIDS, asthma.... I hope you find the proof you need on the google search!!! I saw it ..I will have to get the name of the company that prints the brochure for you....
That's my point, Maxpup, you've provided no internet sites. My Google search (guided by you) came up with no empirical evidence, just anecdotal. I'm willing to take your word for it, really.
In any case, like I said, I'm willing to believe that smoke smell can cause a premature infant to stop breathing. As you said, they are prone to that, although I'm sure you've seen more infants stop breathing for NO apparent reason then from smoke smell. Premature infants do have premature respiratory systems, I understand and agree.
All I'm saying is, being a devil smoker, I try to keep my nasty habit away from the public. I don't want to hear that my "smell" disgusts you. Your personal smell may disgust me, but I don't make rude comments about it, and I expect to be treated the same way you expect to be treated--with a modicum of respect.
You know-I respectfully have to disagree about the body odor thing. If someone smells THAT BAD as to be offensive-I think someone should let them know. If someone uses way too much perfume/cologne/aftershave that it gags all their co-workers...you can't expect the majority to suffer because of one person, can you?
And if someone smells bad because they don't bathe regularly-again, why should friends/co-workers, etc, suffer because of it? You don't have to be rude and say, "you stink!" but something should be done.
I know some elderly people lose some of their sense of smell, so don't even realize there is a problem. That doesn't mean they shouldn't bathe.
And I think the common perception is-most people who use too much perfume or perhaps don't bathe often enough, don't even realize they smell bad. Whereas most smokers know they smell bad and don't care. JMO.
gbroxon...I have provided you an article in USA today as well as 2 out of many Professional Medical Organizations that have publicated research articles...I asked if you really wanted information to look into these journals. I know the articles are printed in them...Again, Neonatal Network, Academy of Neonatal Nursing just to name a few... As far as smells from body odor...I have to say I have not witnessed first hand any apnea spells from odor alone, I have from perfume...It makes me wonder if the body odor smell is something they get used to in utero? Just a thought..that would be a good research article.. I will also agree, people with strong perfume, odors, etc should be told in a polite manner. I would hope someone would tell me if I wear too much perfume, or if I stink with body odor. The good thing in the NICU I work in....nurses are not allowed to wear perfume, sented lotions, etc...and it is a no smoking facility...There is no place to smoke in the entire hospital. (so I don't have to worry about co-workers bringing smoke in)...
I think it is an individual's right to smoke or not smoke--outside, in their car, in their home, whatever, anywhere that it is permitted. I personally don't smoke, my father was a chain smoker and I had enough cigarette burns to turn me off permantently. Not to mention his ongoing battle with lung/throat/brain cancer.
What is interesting about a cigarette tax is that in general smoking increases as income decreases, which means that this tax is a disproportionate burden on people who can least afford more taxation. It does not seem very...democratic. But I suppose those same people will disproportionately use the healthcare services that the tax pays for, so maybe it's fair.
ok,you wont believe this but here in Ontario,Canada,we have a law where you cant smoke with anyone under 16 in your car(kids),even tho I do smoke,I believe in this new law BUT the cops stopped a guy around 17 that was smoking with a 15 yr old in the car,the cops no sooner charged him,when the 15 yr old girl got out in front of the cops then lit her own cig.Silly or what?
I really didn't realize how much cigarettes are until I heard recently about the tax going up. If I did smoke, I would be pissed as well. After reading this thread, I for some reason decided to add my 2 cents. When I was a kid it seemed like just about everyone I knew (adults) smoked. That was in the 60's & 70's. My step sisters smoked, so I thought I'd give it a try, but I felt so dizzy and thought I was going to be sick, so I never tried it again. My mother and her father were both chain smokers, he stayed with us every weekend, so the house was always filled with smoke. Am I worried about what secondhand smoke has done to me? Yes. In the car my mother always smoked with the window opened so that my brothers and I didn't have to breath the smoke, but I was in the seat behind her and felt the sting in my eyes when she flicked her cigarette ashes out of the window, but instead they blew back into my eyes. My grandfather passed away from lung cancer when I was 18. My mother continued to smoke until she had a heart attack 4 years ago. Her doctor, as well as her children, had asked her for years to stop, but it took having the heart attack for her to quit. When she did smoke, after I became an adult, she never smoked in my house, my car or around my children. I appreciated that. I really don't know anyone now that smokes, except for my mother in law and my sister in law, so I really find that I notice when I see someone smoking. Maybe because its usually high school kids. I think that because smokers do seem to be the minority, most try to respect those of us that don't smoke. Obviously, those of us that don't smoke are against it and those that do don't want to be judged. I didn't reply to this post to insult people nor be insulted, just felt like sharing my experience.
I've held back from responding to this post as it has gotton so off the main topic of taxes. I smoked from age 16 to 35. Went cold turkey. Smokefree for 10 years now. Now I'm allergic to the smoke, less then 5 mins. around it I'm so conjested I can hardly breath.
The stench of the stale smoke on everything from a smokers house is unbelievable to me now. The smoke from a burning cig and the residue smell left on everything else are two very different smells. Trust me as a smoker your immune and do not smell it. My adult childern smoke and I cringe smelling my grandaughters hair, clothes, toys, etc. knowing my own kids smelled that bad growing up. Anything my in-laws bring us has to be thrown out or scrubed even the plastic bags they bring it in stink. I was also defensive as a smoker, but you really don't realize how nasty of an addiction it is.
I couldn't have said it better myself Rowdy! Congrats on quitting, going on three years myself this August. I was probably in denial and defensive as a smoker too, because I know I was while I was overweight.
It was like all of a sudden a light switched on for me and I decided to live healthy. With such drastic changes to my life, I certainly immediately felt a difference in my body. No wonder I was so miserable. Now reading some of these posts...I can understand why there have been so many studies linking how smoking affects ones mood.
Thank You! I have by no mean been trying to say I am better than anyone else...but, people don't realize the degree the stale smoke has...just like people keep putting more perfume on because they don't smell it. Pope, I didn't realize there was an actual name for the smoke I was talking about. I goggled "third hand smoke"...wow...I am going to get some information and have it available for our parents in our NICU...I am just glad to hear there are others that find the smell bad. I was feeling as if I was the only one... Congrats to you both on being smoke free..Rowdy, I understand what you are saying about the in-laws gifts...I have been there...even the tissue paper the presents were wrapped in...No, I was not ungrateful for the gifts, I love my mother dearly...I am just really glad and proud of her for giving up the cigarettes.