I was really surprised when I was researching breeders for my next GSD and stumbled across a "panda" shepherd. My ideal GSD would be only working lines from Europe. Not a fan of the American Shepherds.
I am really surprised that people are actually breeding these dogs. Frankie's OFA papers state her as fair!! Yet, they still breed her! For what? Obviously, her color. Personally, if they want to breed tri colored "GSD"s then they need to get another breed name for it and stop lieing to the AKC about their color and just say they are tri colored dogs. I personally think that somewhere back in the pedigree of those dogs that there was a discrepancy or the bitch was bred by more than just one dog. There are a variety of reasons people can come up with to reason why these dogs are occurring. I just have a very hard time believing that these dogs have purebred pedigrees. Maybe it is an outcrop from 4 or 5 generations ago.
I am a real horse nut. My chosen breed cannot come in pinto, grey, or appaloosa, or sabino. They only come in a base color of bay, black, chestnut, cream gene is present in a few individuals, mostly have the dun dilution factor. However, no matter how hard you try, you will never get a pinto color individual! Just not gonna happen! Here is my website about them: **
Website is not permitted on the forum. It has animals for sale and up for stud advertisings.
***Edited By: lpn169 on 7/27/2009 12:43:14 AM*** Reason: No advertising sites
The problem is, no matter where they came from the Panda Shepherd is now its own breed. According to the person I have seen as shows, they have added some other breeds besides german shepherd to get the true Panda Shepherd. It is the same as the Biewers(sp?). They all started out as Yorkies, but someone decided they liked the piebald gene and went for it.
Also Fair is not displasic, and is fine as long as it is bred to an excellent. Most registries allow for fair, and even OFA says breeding a fair is fine as long as it is to an excellent.
The ones I met at the show were really nice, great personalities and cool looking dogs. Alot of breeds started out as spin offs or mutts. Lets just hope that the people who are breeding them, give a damn, and don't screw them up.
I have never seen them before. I love their coloring!
I don't agree with breeding out of standard dogs but if they branch off and breed them well I would be interested long down the road. Depends on a ton of different things though.
I think the ofa ratings are kind of interpretative to a certain point.Ideally only excellent would be bred but if you have a dog excellent in every way why not breed a fair to an excellent? See how that litter turns out. There is always going to be something to improve on. Now if the hips were bad thats a different story.
I bet there was another breed in there somewhere. But they are cute!
I know I hate in the horse world how people go after color anything. Screw the long ugly back and and legs so bad you can't ride it-cuz who cares if its a mare and you can breed it?! Thats why I feel bad saying I like these shepherds!But if they are there physically and the color is just a bonus I am a little more open to it.
edit**** Our mustang looks so much like one of the horses(dragon breath?) on your site-he could be his twin! He rubbed out a lot of the lighter part of his mane though and doesn't have the leg markings. I love the mares color on your homepage!
If I have any beliefs about immortality, it is that certain dogs I have known will go to heaven, and very, very few persons -James Thurber
That is what is really freaking me out with these dogs is I feel like breeding a dog with fair hips is somewhat irresponsible. I mean, if those pups end up with fair hips then what is the point? Also, if the dog doesn't have a performance record, I don't care how many titles they get at conformation, they are still only proven half way. Same thing as breeding a horse that can't ride or even be halter broke. I know of a Spanish Mustang stallion named Nevada Bob whose owners never felt compelled to even halter break him and most of his offspring are nuts. Spook at everything. A GSD was bred for work and is an aggressive breed. I hate that people think that a dog with SCHH titles is now a fear biter. Fact is, SCHH titles are tests of temperament and obedience. Taking a GSD (I don't care what color it is) and not breeding for temperament, conformation, and health and only taking in one side of the coin is irresponsible.
I would like to see these Panda Shepherds with SCHH titles being that they are mostly GSD's and will be prone to a more aggressive and working type of temperament.
Here in the states, I would love to see any AKC dog with a major conformation champion do the work it was breed to do. At least the Panda's can stand on all 4 legs, that is more then I can say for the Germans. That is the biggest problem with AKC, if the people care about AKC, they don't care much about health or structure, just what wins. If you don't care about AKC you are a BYB, but at least the dogs are healthy. Great double standard isn't it?
LOL I plan on getting my GSDs registered AKC (which I don't care about) and also SCHH USA to get their breed survey scores and also record their titles in performance. AKC is just a place to register. I have never seen AKC require anything from the dogs registered there to do anything but prance around in a ring. The American GSD usually looks deformed (unless they have some German GSD in there). I also can't stand the Greyhound head of the American GSD. From any GSD, I can't stand overly angulated hips and convex backs. Those are not structurally sound conformation points. Also, show dogs tend to have weak and wobbly hocks. Not something that is useful in the working world.
I care about GSDs with performance champion pedigrees, correct structure, and health records (not necessarily in that order). I would rather have a dog fail in the show ring than have one that has crap health and a shaky temperament.
A fear biting Shepherd comes from a dog that doesn't have a temperament tested pedigree (and themselves) in the sport that they are suppose to be good at (SCHH) and then training a dog like that in protection.
The original dog they started calling a panda shepherd in 2000 was a mismarked GSD who they DNA tested to make sure that it came from the dam and sire of the litter they had planned and wasn't the product of a fence jumper. When it was bred, it produced another 'panda' coloured dog..
So if there was that one, and they are all descended from that one dog, that makes for a large deep gene pool for sure .
Still think they look like most of the shepherd husky crosses here, especially the ones with the blue eyes. That is where I would question purity of the lines, JMO. I mean how often do blue eyes happen in the pure white ones?
Ok, I have come into this post a bit late but I wanted to bring up something that I read from the OP. I have done years of research, I also plan to have a very nice German Bloodline German Shepherd Dog Kennel someday. And I know a lot of breeders of some of the Worlds highest quality GSDs in Schutzhund and Police Dogs. I love my 2 German working line GSDs, I've had both American and German and I'll never own another American line dog again. :)
The comment about breeding OFA Fair hips is what I want to bring up. I have talked to a lot of breeders about this and I have read up on the OFA website, Breeding Fair hips isn't bad, if you look into some factors about it. 1. What did the parents rate. 2. what did the other litter mates from that litter rate. 3. look at the environment and nutrition of the dog as it grew. 4. take into consideration about the vet who shot the x-rays.
If you have a GSD from good parents and your dog bounced off the walls and jumped off your deck or things like that, or you worked them to hard to young, that can play a big part on your dogs rating. Even if your dog had good hips, if they get beat up on a daily basis they will wear a little. But the biggest factor is the Vet. A really good vet knows how to postion the hips right for the x-ray and get a good rating, but a not so good vet may not turn the hips enough and a good set of hips may score fair or not pass, even though the dogs hips are good. How I look at it is this. If the dogs parents have nice hips, even if one is fair and one is good rated, and they majority of the litter mates scored Good, if your dog scores Fair I have no problems with breeding them. But if both parents are Fair and the rest of the Litter is Fair than I wouldn't breed that dog.
Just my thoughts. I came across this problem with my Male GSD. His hips scored Fair but the rest of the litter scored Good. Than to come to fine out the vet I took him to wasn't as experienced as he claimed with OFA, I talked to the breeders and a new vet that moved into town, they specailize in reproduction, and told me that breeding my male GSD wouldn't be a bad thing, and after looking at all the test done on him they were excited about him being bred. I just couldn't afford to pay for OFA's twice. Just my thoughts. lol. I would love to see pics of your GSDs. What blood lines do your dogs come from?
We should strive to be the kind of people our dogs think we are.
Good lord, here we go again! More mutt breeding with a cutsie name and crappy OFA's. Having said that I think OFA's are largely how the pup is raised as well as on what type of surface, road worked too early etc as well as heredity. A combo of both. That is what I have observed over the last 35 years anyway.
I just want to be clear that I don't like the breeding of mutts, and in my opinion that the Panda Shepherd is not a purebreed, if it is, it is a very poor quality example of a German Shepherd Dog and should never be Bred. I am a big supporter of responsible breeding of dogs who have gone through a ridged health and temperament screening. If a dog fails one of these screenings it should be pulled from a breeding program. And I hate the breeding of mutts for money. Just wanted to make sure that was clear
We should strive to be the kind of people our dogs think we are.
In reference to the absurd claims that Panda Shepherds are either a " hoax" "falsified breed record" or worse yet "deformities" that should be culled , I invite you to visit the *****website and look at the post from the Geneticist (You know,a reputable intelligent person who spent years expanding their knowledge and general education) who performed genetic testing that not only proved that the two dogs tested -as parents , -were parents , but went on to state his also confirming no other breeds (as in sire's or dam's geneology)appeared in the subjects bloodline . He and the Kennels go as far as to provide his contact info for anyone who still may have questions or doubts . Look , I have no connections with said kennel or scientist , do not own a Panda or any other type of Shepherd dog , nor am I a breeder or scientist of any kind . I am however , one who loves dogs of all types , feel that - not Nearly enough shelter dogs are considered by folks when deciding on a pet just as much as I believe in the sanctuatey of keeping established breeds pure. And while I do observe and agree with the individuals right to opinion,I refuse to respect said right if it is not an educated one. As far as why this mutation has just now shown up. So late? So late in relation to what? In relation to how fast human skin evolved to deal with the sun exposure they got depending on what continent? Or the formation of their ocular bone/facial-muscular/skin orientation due to the same sun exposure adjusted to form how their eyes and eye lids would develop? C'mon folks , lighten up , live a little , learn a little.
** Advertising of any kind is not permitted. This includes kennel names, links to sites that sell pups, etc.
***Edited By: lpn169 on 10/14/2010 4:07:16 AM*** Reason: No advertising