I have a male and female Bichon Frise. When I got the male, my female was at the end of her heat cycle, and the pet store assured me that the male was too young to father the puppies. This was at the end of July. I started noticing that my female was getting "fat" and her teats were getting larger. She was also displaying lots of nesting behavior (tearing things up, hiding, ect.) I began to think she was pregnant. However, when I took her to the vet they told me it was just a false pregnancy. Last night she threw up a few times, and my husband says he saw some milk come out of her teats. Around midnight I noticed her stomach getting really hard. I never felt anything like it. This has come and gone all day since last night. She acts as if she doesn't feel good, but then she will get a burst of energy and get down and play for a little bit. I do not know if she is in labor...or if she is just sick. Or maybe I'm just being paranoid. I don't know what to think. Does any body know?
Did you actually witness a breeding? What did the vet do to determine it was a false pregnancy? And when was this vet visit?
False pregnancies can cause milk production though, as well as many of the other symptoms she has. The pressing question is how he decided and at what stage of the possible pregnancy did he decide that?
As a side note...never, ever believe what a pet store salesperson tells you, they will say anything to make a sale. If they truly knew about dogs and loved them they would not work there and support puppymills by helping them sell their pups.
lol nope you r not paranoid at all, i have a male n female pekingese and they mated and no i didn't see it take place but heres the thing, the female actually gave birth to a litter of 3 pups at a whopping 8 months old yes 8 months so your dog is not ever to young to get pregnant, and I delivered that litter myself and EXACTLY how you are explaining your dog doing my female did beginning about 13 hours before her first pup was born and another thing, she wont want the male around, she will growl at the male as to say these r mine now so back off,she'll do that everytime,but you can actually feel the puppies and how many she is having,lay her on her side and watch the lil balls so to speak in her belly move away from the side she is laying on,good luck on yoru new lil blessings(^:^)
First of all...I know pet stores lie, and I know you shouldn't get your pets from there. But both mine were getting "to old" to stay and were being shipped back to the puppy mill (which was probably a lie too)... I couldn't let that happen I felt so bad for them. So I bought them.
I didn't see them actually tie. I did see my male attempt to mount her...but I would stop him when I was around. But they are home alone a lot. I took her to the vet around what I thought would have 40+ days into her pregnancy...the vet didn't seem to get that though. He kept saying she shouldn't have gone into heat in July. All he did was feel.
I'm thinking shes prolly not in labor, since its been almost 48 hours since she started acting weird. But she definitely acts like you describe. She growls when the male goes near her. But she is very clingy to me (other than she wants to sleep in the closet and not in the bed). She keeps carrying this sock around and licking it and tucking in under her. I can't notcibly feel any puppies. Maybe she was just sick??
Tonya, I sincerely hope that the mating that occured between your dogs was BEFORE you purchased/obtained ownership of them. If this happened while they were in your care...shame on you! It is much too dangerous for an 8 month old PUPPY to give birth to a litter of more puppies! You should have noticed the signs of her heat and separated them before mating happened. Better yet, if you are not a breeder, and for the sake of more puppies I hope you are not, you need to have them both fixed!
OP, are these pups brother and sister from the same litter? Or did it just so happen that the puppy mill, I mean pet store, where you purchased them, just happened to have a male and female? If they are siblings and she IS in fact pregnant, oh my... My other question is if you took the female to the vet after purchasing her, how did he know if she should have been in heat in July or not? I can take any of my dogs in and my vet has no clue as to how their cycles run...only I know based on my calendar and record keeping.
If they are home alone, are they not in crates? Do you allow a male and female to have free run of your home? If so, this is not only a risk to your belongings, but a grave risk to their potential safety. Since you are not a breeder, you must make it a priority to have these babies fixed as soon as possible.
Best of luck!
Friends will step in when the rest of the world steps out.
The fact you felt sorry for them and purchased them, just condemed many other puppies. If you would have let them go back to the puppy mill, that is the first step in stopping them. we have to stop feeling sorry for those puppies, or puppy mill we never be stoped.
Next I would take you bitch back to the vet and ask for an x-ray. if there are no pups, then she isn't pregnant. Guessing isn't getting anyone anywhere, and if she is not feeling well, it is dangerous for her.
In my opinon, it doesnt really matter what a store or anyone tells you. It is never a good idea to keep an intact male and intact female together when she is in heat. I could care less if he has a clue or not. Esp. when you saw him try to mount her. it is just irresposible on your part, and please have them altered asap.
For your piece of mind, go for an xray. She would be plenty far enough along for any pups she may have to show. If none show, she is having a false pregnancy.
The vet was an idiot to decide simply by palpation for one, trying to predict when she should be in heat, is also idotic on the vets part. No way of examining a female and knowing when she may come in. They can cycle as early as 5 months....and where there is a cycle, there is pregnancy risk.
As far as the male puppy....same, he can be far younger than you think and still have swimmers. Age is no specific guarantee that he can not get her pregnant unless it is a 6 week old pup.
All her behavior could be false pregnancy, it could be her starting to nest. The uncomfortable period she had could have been the minor pains they get as the puppies line up for the process.
Xray is best, then you know and will sleep well if you find she isnt. You wont be up all night worrying if she's starting, lol.
Wow! SOME People have very strong opinions about breeding. You have the right to your opinion, but you don't have to be rude or mean about it...you could nicely share. I do not understand why people get so pissy about people whose dogs gets pregnant. What makes you a "breeder"? Is there some special "breeder school" you can go to? I have never heard of one. Which then leads me to ask how did you become a breeder in the first place? Do you know EVERYTHING the first time your dog had puppies. I would venture to say no! So how can you be so critical of people having a litter of puppies for the first time. What makes a breeder so special? They were just like every one else in the beginning. i I want to breed my dog, and my vet okays her health, thats my buisness. I would never do anything to jeporadize her, she is my baby. And when you read these forums I think you need to make sure you understand who is saying what. Someone just blended information from like 3 people into one story. And the took half the information out of context.
Next thing, I do not believe that we are going to shut puppy mills down anytime soon. Unfortuneatly there are to many people out there who are completely ignorant and know nothing about them. They do not know that thats is where pet store puppies come from, so I think it is just as crule to boycot these poor incent dogs at the pet stores. They didn't choose to come there and can't help where they were born. So shouldn't someone give these puppies a better life? Ithink the only way a puppy mill would stop is the the pet stores didn't get their dogs from them. I could never let a poor inocent puppy go back to a puppy mill if I could give it a better life. Do you really think the puppy mill is going to loose all its profit on that one dog the pet store couldn't sell.
The intnetion has always been to get them fixxed before my female goes into heat again. I would never subject her to a pregnancy at a young age. And of course he is going to attempt to mount her, thats what dogs do. It dominance. My mom's male dogs try to mount each other. So, when I saw him mount I didn't think he was sexualy matured. And I know believe I was right about that. I had never seen him errect until the other day. I think I would have seen it long before then.
Thanks to those who were encourging and not critical. And who gave me some helpful inormation. Its much appreciated. She has been acting more normal lately, however I am going to get her an appointment with the vet. I always planned to. But she started acting funny over the weekend, there wasn't anything else I could do but try to find somone who might know something.
Also, they are not from the same litter. Ther were purchased months apart in different states. I even looked at the breeder name and the "family tree" thing to make sure they weren't related in case she got pregnant.
LOL baby, wait til you see the responses when I jump on board! This is one of the most hostile sites to beginner breeders I've ever seen. I've been in animal husbandry most of my 51 years, but some of the old methods are a bit politically incorrect and I've been blasted for them. Even when I specifically stated that this advice was from a book,not my personal experience or endorsement. Never mind the good and even excellent advice I give...so unfortunately, it's hard to get good sound advice for all the backbiting. OK you bought from a pet store cause you felt sorry for them. Well they have a good home now and I might have even tried to save them from going back. If your bitch has a false pregnancy, she will eventually go back to normal. They sometimes do look like they're in labor and occasionally somr watery fluid comes out. Trouble signs: green discharge, any type of foul odor, white pale gums.She may get a toy and make it a baby, placing it at her teats, being protective of it, etc. She'll, as her hormones settle down,go back to her old self usually within 6 weeks. Of course consult a vet and if they won't advise you with out an office call, call an experienced breeder, find them through AKC or UKC. And good luck...everyone BE NICE
WoW! Can I just say that I commented on Tonya's post due to the fact that someone who allows an 8 month old to mate and have puppies is not only irresponsible, but they are selfish. IF a person wants pets, that is fine. If they want to breed, I do think they should at least try to learn a little about what it takes to be a good breeder. Accidental breedings come from irresponsibility. A bitch is in heat for around 21 days. In those 3 weeks, she is not likely to allow a male to take to her for at least about 9 days or so. In that period of time, a responsible owner will separate those pets. In acutality, a real responsible owner will have them fixed but most do not.
As far as breeder school, I have personally never attended. What I did do was this...I decided on a breed that I enjoyed and loved. I began reading and researching anything and everything I could about that breed. I attended dog shows, consulted with other breeders and absolutely learned everything I could about caring for my breeders as well as their pups. I started with a male and a female and I found a local breeder to be my mentor. I have never allowed my dogs to mate before they were 2 years old; more especially the bitch. I have a calendar that I used to mark the beginning and end of each heat cycle. I chose champion blood lines to begin my breeding career and from there I decided to learn how to keep the standards and better the breed. No, I didn't know everything I needed to for my first litter but I knew a lot. That's again why I enlisted the trust of a mentor to be with me when my first litter delivered. Pick of my litter was a small price to pay based on the knowledge I'll forever have and I learn more all the time.
Anyone can find a male and female and put them together and let them mate. Those are what's known as puppy mills or back yard breeders. They sell their pups for competitive prices and they sell them quick. If you were not planning on being a breeder, you should have had them fixed or at least the female. Pet stores are puppy mills and each time a pup is purchased, the pet store gets their cut, the mill gets the rest and that only encourages them to breed MORE to meet supply and demand.
Maybe I do sound mean or harsh or whatever but that's my opinion and that's what makes us all different.
Sorry if you or anyone else was offended but I still think your vet is telling you a lie if you took a possibly pregnant pup in his office and he says he can tell when she should have had her heat. Vets can't tell that based on physical exam.
Oh, and I still think that all dogs need to be crated and in a safe place when no one is home. To keep them from destroying the house as well as to keep them safe from potential dangers that can harm or kill them.
Friends will step in when the rest of the world steps out.
I totally agree with oxford. It is totally irresponsible to allow an 8 month old bitch to whelp a litter of puppies; especially if you thought she might still be in heat. I think it is also irresponsible to buy a dog from a pet store because you feel sorry for it. All it does is fund the operation more.
No, breeders do not know "everything" and even breeders who have been in it forever are still learning new things. However, new breeders will do the responsible thing and learn as much as they can, purchase/co-own quality show prospect, participate in dog events, and do appropriate health screens before breeding when the dogs are old enough.
I believe the majority of major problems with dogs (health problems, poor breed representatives, overpopulation, and mixed breeds) stem from: pet shops/brokers, backyard breeders, puppy mills, AND the individuals who buy the dogs resulting from these breedings. No law or regulation is going to stop puppy mills; it's up to the people who buy the dogs.
School bus Gal...if there is one thing I have learned in anything..."Experience" is generally misused term to impress. 51 years? Experience of 51 years translates to 1 year of learning how to do it, and 50 years of repeating it. that's not experience, that's staganation. experience is progressive, trying new things...to come conclusions on which is the best.
And if you folks think this site is hostile try a working dog website. Man, There are people whom love working dogs, but not dogs themselves. And the opposite. You should see the racket...this place is mild.
And when I think good breeder, I think AKC or UKC....Anyone ever drive down the road and see the signs on front lawns "registered AKC black lab puppies"...those are the experienced breeders.
Baby you know what...dogs, deer, rats, kangroos, sharks and whales all give birth to young without our help on a daily basis. If you come home and thier yips in the house when you get there. Tada you have puppies. We cannot help you, you need to go to a vet and get an ultra sound done if you want to know if thier are puppies. and if your dog is only 40 days along and going into labor...You need to go to the vet anyway. Because your having premature puppies.
And vomiting is not a sign of labor.
And baby actually, A breeder plans a litter....You had a Boo, Boo. So I think one qualification is that a breeder knows to keep the boys seperate from the girls when the girl is in season. And just does not know the boy off the girl if they see them in action.
I do have a problem with people who do not have a half a brain. Get a dog, let alone 2 and now have more puppies to give out to people just like yourself. Do you see how this becomes a mess. And No there is not a breeder school. And no, not everyone starts out like you are. I am embarking on my first litter...let me tell you. I am way ahead of your ball game. I may not know everything. But I know enough to keep me and my dog out of trouble.
I believe a dog's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment he holds dear, is when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-with a ball in his mouth."