My husband and I bought a lab puppy three weeks ago (he is now nine weeks old). The girl we bought him from told us the parents were AKC registered, for some reason she chose not to register the puppies (I believe this is due to where we live, she wouldn't have made the money off of them she normally could have elsewhere). She says the puppy comes from championship blood lines, that the parents are both terrific hunters, the ones a champion, she paid so much money for the parents blah blah blah. Anyway, I've researched and know there is no way to register my puppy with AKC unless she registers the liter. My questions are these: I want my dog to be able to compete in AKC Obedience as well as Agility (I've read about the Purebred alternative) does anyone know more about this option? He's such a smart dog and I know he'd be great at it. Also, because we love our lab so much, and if what she says is true and he comes from championship bloodlines we were looking to possibly breed him in the future so we could have another puppy. I am curious, is there a way to find out if he really does come from championship bloodlines? DNA testing, anything like that? I'm new to all this. Also, is there any other reputable club to have him registered with that would make him appealing to those who would be looking for a stud? I'd really like to find out if he comes from the bloodlines she says so I could find a dog similar to him to breed with. If anyone has any info on this that would be great. As I said I am new to all of this and want to do it all the correct way. Also what is this OFA etc. that I've been seeing? I want to make sure I have the right testing as well. Any info anyone could give would be appreciated. Thank you.
Also for the record I want to reinforce, I will NOT be planning to breed my puppy anytime soon, if even at all. I understand you're to wait until two years? If I could get clarification on that as well...
The girl we bought him from told us the parents were AKC registered, for some reason she chose not to register the puppies (I believe this is due to where we live, she wouldn't have made the money off of them she normally could have elsewhere).
That doesn't make sense to me, the money part anyway. I would guess that the parents may very well be AKC registered, however I would further guess that they were registered on a limited registration and were not supposed to be bred, therefore the girl COULDN'T register the puppies, even if she wanted to because the parents were not supposed to be bred in the 1st place.
She says the puppy comes from championship blood lines, that the parents are both terrific hunters, the ones a champion, she paid so much money for the parents blah blah blah.
Did you ask to see any documentation to prove what she is saying or did you take her at her word? MOST breeders are MORE than willing to share everything they have on their dogs because they are proud of them and their accomplishments, They love to brag about them.
I want my dog to be able to compete in AKC Obedience as well as Agility (I've read about the Purebred alternative) does anyone know more about this option?
If you are speaking about the ILP alternative you simply take the required pictures that AKC asks for and submit them along with proof of neutering and the fee. AKC determines whether or not your dog is actually a Lab and if they do they send you his number. Then you can enter him in anything you wish too.
Also, because we love our lab so much, and if what she says is true and he comes from championship bloodlines we were looking to possibly breed him in the future so we could have another puppy. I am curious, is there a way to find out if he really does come from championship bloodlines? DNA testing, anything like that?
You will need to ask the breeder for a copy of the parents pedigrees and I *think* there are places that can run a pedigree search for you to verify what this woman says is true. I have a suspicion that she fed you a line of crud BUT you never know.
Also, is there any other reputable club to have him registered with that would make him appealing to those who would be looking for a stud?
I am afraid the answer is no. I believe the only way you will make him appealing to others interested in breeding is to join a hunt club or a field trial club and put the titles on him and then MAYBE you might find someone who doesn't care about a registered breeding. Some sporting dog people do not care about registration, only proven work ability. However, that's alot of if's.
Also what is this OFA etc. that I've been seeing? I want to make sure I have the right testing as well.
OFA is a foundation that reads and grades hip and elbow X-rays. They then give them a rating of dysplastic, fair, good or excellent. More or less to determine whether the dog intended to be bred is going to pass on any genetic problems in those 2 areas. OFA stands for the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals. I would suggest that you research the breed, find out what health issues are in the breed. Those are the things you need to test your dog, and any dog he will be bred with, for to make sure as much as possible they will be producing healthy puppies. Your puppy's parents should have had those tests done also to make sure your puppy will be ok.
Scout, If I am able to find a place that could run a pedigree on him do you believe I would still need the pedigree from her? I'm not sure if she lied or not, I'd like to think she didn't...but I guess you never know, and I didn't ask for proof because at the time I wasn't worried about registering him, my husband and I just now decided that we'd like to get him into obedience and agility and would like to breed him as well. When you talk about titles in fielding and hunting, how do you go about doing that? Also, is this along the same lines of titling them in obedience and agility as well, and if it is, how do I go about that too? I'm new to all of this. I've always loved dogs and I've always owned a dog (or rather my parents did until two years ago when I moved out and started buying my own) but I never really went any further with my other dogs than obedience training, and I didn't care if they were registered because I had no intentions of breeding them (probably a good thing because the one has a bad back anyway). I don't want to do anything to mess with breed standards or anything like that, but as I said before if he really does come from championship bloodlines like she says, I'd really like to look into breeding him once. She did say the parents were tested as far as hips and elbows...I'm sure she said other areas were tested as well I just can't remember...she just didn't mention OFA that's why I was curious as to what that was. Any help you could give on any of these issues would be great. I'm so excited to get into the training aspect of everything etc. :) Thank you.
I really do not know about the pedigree question. I imagine you would at least need to know the parents full registered names, not just what the girl calls them. Their full registered names would include the kennel name from which they were originally born and maybe even her kennel name added if she has a kennel name.
As far as titling them in obedience and agility you just need to enroll him in a training school that does both and ask them if they train to compete. Some places will train just for pet companions but other places do compete and that is the type of trainer you want to find.
you may find more information on what you want to know at the link i posted above. You may also want to look for field trial events near you and go watch a few of them to see if you are even interested in doing that.
Now generally speaking, when people are looking for a titled dog to get a puppy from, they are speaking about conformation titles, not obedience or agility titles. Unless you get involved in the working side of the breed. Those people generally do not care so much about form but emphasize function...can the dog do what he was originally bred for. Both SHOULD go hand in hand but the more you research the more you will find a division amongst both groups because some believe the conformation people are only breeding for looks and not function and vice versa.
You have quite alot to read and absorb. But, you have 2 years to get a grasp on all of it, as any of the genetic health test you need to have done prior to breeding cannot, or rather should not, be done until he is 2 yrs old anyway.
Get involved in the breed club. Don't be discouraged by some attitudes you may encounter. Explore everything and decide where, or if, you fit in to any of it. You will encounter people who will be harsh, but remember they love their breed and since labs are the number 2 breed found in all the shelters, they sometimes don't take to newbie breeders thinking you will just be out to make a buck off your dog instead of preserving the breeds integrity.
I read all the comments and Scout is giving you accurate, great advice. I cannot add anything to it other than these things:
1. I would not think a reputable breeder would sell a puppy at 6 weeks old. That greatly concerns me, as most breeders will say 8 weeks minimum and prefer 10 weeks old because we know how important it is to learn from mom and litter mates.
2. I realize that breeding is down the road, but to be discussing it at 9 weeks of age, with no health testing, no clue about pedigree or temperament, no health histories, no registrations, etc. That is something that I carefully analyze when I meet breeders and am looking to purchase a puppy.
3. You may find difficulty finding a bitch to breed to. Someone that has the health clearances, registrations, pedigrees, etc., most likely will want a mate with the same. You state that you would want a puppy of his, but then you would have another unregistered pup. Might want to think about not breeding him, and if you want another puppy in the future, seek out one from a reputable breeder that will give you all that you seek at this time.
For the pedigree search you would need both parents registered names and I believe their Registration #'s as well.
ILP for competition in obedience and agility in AKC requires the dog first be altered.
You may want to contact the 'breeder' you bought from and try to obtain some of the info on the parents...OFA numbers, Reg numbers, etc
I too am guessing this person did alot of lying to you about this puppy. I agree that the parents were likely never permitted to be bred in the first place (limited registration, if at all) and they were not permitted to register tham. Litter registration costs are very nominal and would have been a benefit to pay a small fee to acquire papers making pups more marketable, IMO
Scout, Thank you so much for all the information. My husband and I are leaning more towards getting him neutered so that he can compete. We figure this way we will learn all there is to learn about the competitions and we can really work with him, and hopefully get him titled in a few things. We are still talking about possibly breeding down the line, but if we do decide to do this, I've decided we will buy a dog MAKING SURE they have their AKC papers and then when the time is right do all the necessary testing etc. I really do love this breed (then again I love all dogs) and don't want to do anything to harm the breed. I really appreciate all the information that you've given me. Thank you soooo much :) I'm glad I found this forum, it's nice to have people to talk to who love their animals as much as I do. Aside from my husband I have yet to meet any people where we are who love their dogs the way I do. We live on a military base, and unfortunately I see people mistreating their animals constantly. Sorry to ramble on...I would just like to thank you again :) Pwdlover, I'd like to thank you for your comments as well. I would also like to say that I was only looking into the breeding aspect now because I've never thought about it, and wanted to gain more info for my knowledge, just something for me to think about in the future, I like to plan in advance. But I will not be breeding Perseus, I've decided we will neuter him as I said earlier in this post, when the time is right I will find a lab puppy from a reliable breeder who is AKC registered. Most likely when we move. There aren't many reputable ANYTHING where we're living right now (El Paso, TX). Thank you for your comments. LPN169, Thank you for your comments as well :) You've all been very helpful. On a side note...one more quick question, does anyone know if it would be a bad idea to try to train him in more than one thing? I would like to do agility and field trials, but I don't know if this would mess things up? Should I be focusing more on one aspect than the other? Thank you.
Okay. We just registered with a dog club down here and the lab will start obedience classes in June...my chihuahuas on the other hand start in two weeks...apparently they've forgotten the majority of what they learned before or they think they don't have to listen lol. Thank you so much for your help :) I am excited to see what Perseus can do. He's such a smart dog, nine weeks old and he already knows sit and down. Now if I could just get him to stop chewing on my running shoes lol. And not five minutes ago he came over to me and was chewing on a piece of GLASS! I don't even know where he got it from...there hasn't been broken glass in the house in MONTHS. Puppies lol.
I can't tell you how many times a day he scares me because he gets into something lol. Actually my husband picked the name...he named him after the Greek demi god lol. I didn't like the name but its grown on me.
Right lol, you know what when you said that it completely went over my head but yea that's where he got the name. We watched that movie and LOVED it...haha. And it was either Perseus or Zeus, Zeus is too common lol.
I want to commend you on listening and weighing the options for your dog ratherthan simply thinking of yourself....kudos!
On your other question:Yes! You can absolutely train in multiple areas with your dog. I believe beginning with basic obedience so that his commands and recalls are reliable is the best foundation for having successful training in other areas.
Many people, especially those that are multi purpose dogs do train for many types of competition at once. The dogs will learn to distinguish which they are about to do and be excited about it!
Labs are a very intelligent and versatile breed...I think you are going to have alot of fun with him.
Lpn, Thank you. It was always my intention to do what was best for my dog. And we just signed him up for his first obedience class which starts in June :)
On a side note...I am having an issue with him trying to use my Chihuahuas as chew toys...any advice on how to correct him? Someone had told us to grab him by his scruff but that seems awful cruel to me. Any suggestions? Thanks :)
And sorry one more thing lol. I've been looking to switch my dogs dog food...a vet we previously had told us to put them on purina one, which I just found out is bad for my dogs...so we're looking to switch and I did some research and from what I've gathered both blue buffalo and by nature are good dog foods. However when I try to see how people feel about the by nature I can't find anything on it? Does anyone have any suggestions about either dog food? Or any other dog food...I really don't care about the price of the food, I just want my pups to eat what's good for them. Thank you.
If your dog doesn't like someone you probably shouldn't either!