I see that this is as "Hot Button" an issue here on TP as it is nationally. Admittedly, this is an issue that I am conflicted about.
Fully 72% of those polled by Rasmussen Reports are in opposition to any Mosque being built near Ground Zero. I strongly support the Constitutional guarantee to practice any religion you choose and to do so anywhere you choose... Just not that religion... I know that sounds hypocritical and even more troubling, dangerously intolerant. But lets face facts, there is a faction within Islam that wants to do us harm. Militant Muslims and Radical Islamists (one and the same) want to destroy our way of life. This cannot be disputed. It is self professed by those who practice it. It is their intention, desire and mission to eliminate all "Infidels" and impose Sharia Law. This is INCOMPATIBLE with our form of government. The United States of America is a Representative Republic.
I think they have every right to build their little house of holier then thou near ground zero but I don't like it one bit. I see it as a smug poke in the eye of all Americans of a different faith.
I know that there has been intolerance, ignorance and yes evil men laced into the tapestry of most any religion. My own Roman Catholic Church was responsible for many thousands of deaths and untold torture during the "Inquisitions" and "Conquests". Baptists had their segregationists and racists.
Radical Islamists and Militant Muslims are a very real danger to any freedom loving nation that has the will of self determination. It is unfortunate that many peaceful Muslims are equated with these radical elements.
That's my two cents.
You can't win if you don't play the game -- Me!
All cruelty stems from weakness -- Seneca
Sometimes a dog is as good as any man -- Bell/Houser
I had wondered how they felt Oxford. Those that see much more than we will ever would have a better perspective on this I would think.
Ruffian it is not just Americans that feel this way. I have seen plenty of people from all over the world, in countries such as the UK, Europe, Arab countries and even Canada voice their opinions and some are for and some are against. Some of them have lost family or friends in the tragedy, some have not. But it is interesting to read their perspectives considering they do not even live in our country.
Thank you Deputy for sharing your perspective on this. I know it is a hot topic, which may be a little intimidating for some to respond, though I wish they would.
Now I sit me down in school, where praying is against the rule. For this great nation under God, find mention of him very odd. If scripture now the class recites, it violates the bill of rights. Any anytime my head I bow, becomes a Federal matter now. Our hair can be purple, orange or green, thats no offense; its a freedom scene. The law is specific, the law is precise, prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice. For praying in a public hall, might offend someone with no faith at all. In silence alone we must meditate, God's name i prohibited by the state. We'er allowed to cuss and dress like freaks, and pierce our noses, tongues, and cheeks. They've outlawed guns, but first the bible, to quote god makes me liable. We can elect a pregnant senior queen, and the "unwed daddy" our senior king. It's inappropriate to teach right from wrong, we'er taught that such "judgements" do not belong.
This was written by a kid in Arizona. I think it is way to true. Don't even start to preach freedom of religion, when they have taken all the freedom away. I was raised catholic, but as I grew older, I have dropped it. I don't really believe that anymore, but more an American Indian way of thinking where all things have a spirit, and there are many Gods.
I personally do not think anything but a memorial should be build at ground zero, and do not believe ANY KIND of warship places should be allowed within several blocks of it. It needs to be remembered as a place where many people died due to a terrorist attack. Many people of all nationalities. You want to debate freedom of religion, then put God back into schools, and Pledge of Allegiance. I don't care what God you believe in, pray to your God or Gods. Just don't come into my/our country and preach about freedom of religion, then complain becuase of something "you" don't believe in.
As much as I have my own reasons for being upset, I feel this is an issue of majority rules. This is supposed to be a democrocy, and Obama does more of what he wants. If America as a whole doesn't want the Mosque to be there, then I do believe thier wishes should be respected.
POPE---I am not talking about the ones who where the veil over their heads, I am talking about the full face coverings. I am sorry but the name has escaped me at the momment.
You do not seem to be a cool person You need some help How dare you are to ask for birth certificate from Our President How dare you are to write such nonsense about President here May be go to a Tea Party and say anything you like over there ( loosers)
I am a christian I believe in Jesus and pray him all the time I do not like the Mosque to be built in Ground Zero. So many innocent people died . I do not know much about Islam . We all know the terrorists are Islam fanatics.I have a problem with that eventhough I consider myself as a socially democrat
I have friends of the Muslim faith, just as I do pretty much every recognized (and a few not so much) religions.
I am all for the freedom of religion. I am NOT however in favor of building a Mosque within the sight of ground zero. IMHO It is (if nothing else) inflammatory and is in fact going to do more harm than good when it comes to stabilizing the relationships between non-Muslims and those of that faith who are honest, hard working, decent human beings who were just as devastated at the 9/11 attacks as every other humane individual around the world.
Build a Mosque and learning center. Let the non-Muslims learn what the faith truly is and the tenets of the Qu'ran. Find another location. Every time the call to prayer sounds, it will be rubbing salt into the wounds that have yet to heal.
***Edited By: pyrmom on 8/23/2010 4:14:56 PM*** Reason: *
"Some days you're the dog; some days you're the hydrant". author unknown
Bharathi how is Oxford not cool? I, too, would like to see our presidents birth certificate. Not necessarily with my own eyes, but to know that it does indeed say he was born in this country. In order to become president you have to be a natural born citizen of the United States, and if there is any doubt of whether he is or is not, we do have the right to question it. It has nothing to do with liking or not liking the job he is doing.
Why, Oxford, do you think that 93% of people would not watch that video to the end? I thought it was a great video and cannot imagine anyone who wouldn't.
yes Obama was born in Hawaii Many right wing people asked this question over and over again . The Republican Governor of Hawaii confirmed Obama was born in Hawaii Hospital he was born in verified he was born in Hawai They showed the birth certificate over and over again
for some people they really want to see hair in the Egg of course there is no hair in the Egg
Our beloved First Family practise Christianity Obama is a Christian . I have no idea why some far right wing republicans think only They are christians and democrats are not Hell no That is not true Jesus does not care you are a Republican or Democrat as long as you read bible and live with the holy sprit A True christrian will not hurt others by words or actions because he or she dwell with the holy spirit
I am diappointed with Right wing media like Fox which try to spread racisim and division among us
Any way that is my opinion
How are you Scout ? Did you quit smoking? remember you mentioned you are taking some courses ( last year post) how did it go
***Edited By: bharathi on 8/19/2010 10:14:58 AM*** Reason: spelling
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I couldn't imagine he would have gotten so far if his birth hadn't been verified but I couldn't locate any information on it.
I did quit smoking for 4 months. Then I went through a very stressful few months and caved. I am not happy with myself for caving but I will attempt to quit again. Will just keep trying until I am successful. And yes I was taking a radiography program and believe it or not, I am graduating next week !!! I thought this day would never come but as much as I am excited about it, I am also nervous. Thanks for remembering
I will pray for you and your family . Sorry to hear about your daughter I went to Benny hinn crusade last friday in Philadelphia It was awsome . I had a great time I saw miracles happening there I also feel great I am going to Greenville South Carolina next month I do not know what makes me to write this . Since you are a christian you might listen to his preaching
since his father is Muslim, he is a Muslim. And if there is any doubt, we got his middle name (Husein) to confirm it.
I don't know how it is with Christianity, but in Islam, the faith of the child, its religion, its soul is decided by the father. If the father is Muslim, then so is the child. No matter what his mother is, and no matter what he say he is. conversion to another religion is a crime and the conversion is not valid or recognized. In the eyes of the Muslim religion, laws, traditions, faith and Alah, he is a bonafide Muslim for ever, and so will any child he brings in to this world.
About the mosque, just because you can legally do something, doesn't mean you should. Use some common sense.
The essence of hypocrisy is the tendency to make an exception of oneself.
QUOTE BY BHARATHI"I am diappointed with Right wing media like Fox which try to spread racisim and division among us"
Can you please cite any specific instance where you witnessed anything reported or editorialized that can be perceived by any reasonable person that is not motivated by any agenda of anything "racist" that was "spread" among us by any "Right Wing Media"(like FOX)?
You have no problem with CNN, PBS, BBC or any other "Left Wing" Media? Am I to understand that since you seem to have such disdain for any "Right Wing" media outlet that anything that is reported by "Left Wing" media outlets, you will take as gospel truth? How naive.
QUOTE BY BHARATHI"yes Obama was born in Hawaii Many right wing people asked this question over and over again . The Republican Governor of Hawaii confirmed Obama was born in Hawaii Hospital he was born in verified he was born in Hawai They showed the birth certificate over and over again"
Trust but verify -- Ronald Reagan
I do not take as absolute truth anything that is simply told to me, regardless of the source. I am not a conspiracy theorist. I do not know if Mr. Obama is a U.S. citizen or not nor do I care. He is the current President and that will not change. Barring any felonious acts or revelations from on high, he will continue to serve at least until 2012. However, I do not think that the question of Mr. Obama's birthplace has been definitively answered. A proclamation by the Governor of Hawaii is not proof of anything. A hospital birth record (the kind you get when your baby is born on nice hospital stationary with two imprint of the feet) is not proof. Only a State recorded certificate of live birth with the parentage data and the notarized seal of the recorder of the document is authentic. To my knowledge, this has never been offered as proof. We The People are told to simply believe that it is true.
Do you believe anything you are told? Or do you have some standard of required proof.
You can't win if you don't play the game -- Me!
All cruelty stems from weakness -- Seneca
Sometimes a dog is as good as any man -- Bell/Houser
If that were the case, then Pope's husband would also be a Muslim. Yet she stated that he was Catholic. Here is her statement:
Correct, baptised Catholic. Made first communion and confirmation. He even attended Catholic elementary school with his American first name and Turkish middle/last name.
So couldn't it be also true that even if Obama's father is Muslim, that he could very well still be a Christian? Is it a punishable crime to convert? What are the consequences of converting to another faith?
Hello everybody... first post here on these boards but i've been reading this convo for a bit and just wanted to say a thing or two, not that it will change anybody's mind but just throw more things out for discussion.
Just happened to just read this article on msnbc.com today (i'll put a link to the article at the end of my 4 cents), and not to rehash a previous point brought up but the area that the imam is hoping to have built as a new mosque is already being used for the purpose of housing an overflow of his congregation from a few blocks away. The purpose of the intended location is not by mistake and the hope is that those people who are open-minded will want to enter the site and learn about the Islamic religion and see that, much like Catholicism has right-wing groups such as the KKK and Aryan Brotherhoods, those people who follow a skewed version of the Islamic faith do not represent a whole.
I can't remember who brought up the point about the building of a mosque is usually done in the location of a victory. Yes, if you follow the interpretation of the Quran as it was written back in warring, medieval times, and attribute those policies and practices to nowadays then yes it can look like that is the true purpose for the proposed location of this mosque. But if I remember my history correctly, when Catholics went on missions to Africa to try and convert "heathen savages", what did they build? I believe they built churches. A sign of religious conquest? I'll let you decide.
Another thing the article brought up which I had no idea about is that at the Pentagon there is a chapel that was built in November of 2002 as part of the rebuilding efforts. The chapel hosts daily prayer sessions and weekly worship services for all faiths, including Muslims. "Pentagon officials say that no one in the military or the families of the victims of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks has ever protested."
I'm not trying to dismiss what happened on that fateful day. I have friends who have served this country in both Afghanistan and Iraq, and knew of people who lost their lives in the 9/11 attacks. I appreciate the concept of religious freedom and individual expression. If the attacks were to have been found out to be perpetrated by fanatics like Timothy McVeigh or Ted Kaczynski, and a Catholic church was to be built on the same place as they want the mosque to be built, would there be this sort of heated discussion? I'll leave that up to you.
I do not disrespect Muslims or Islam. It is wrong to say or think Muslims are inferior because of their faith A true christian will never hurt the holy spirit . When we say or hurt another human being we are hurting Our Lord who is holy It is my belief . I ask God to be with me all the time we all need the presense of God in our life
I am a christian and I believe my faith . It clearly says love your neighbour as yourself( 8 times in the Bible)
Still I do not like the mosque to be built in the heart of Ground Zero. what will happen after 5 or 6 or even 10 years if a terrorist come out from the mosque or the Mosque created a terrorist We need to think smart . I am very very concerned about it It will be too late if some thing like this happen
Not all the Muslims are terrorists but The terrorists are Muslims .
I hope this story will vanish soon and People will respect Our President for all his achievements . He is an extremely smart man like Bill Clinton. I am glad Health care reform passed so all Americans will have benefits Thank God we do not have Bush who really screwed us big times we are in this mess today because of the decisions of his policies ( both Foreign policy and policies related to Our economy) When Bill CLinton was the President we had Surplus and We had deficit under Bushes watch . All his policies are terrible and unimaginable
I pray to almighty Right wing will not score any points due to Presidents comments I wish Obama kept quiet on this Mosque issue. I disagree with him . I wish he did not say what he said Howard Dean and Henry Reid did not agree with President on this . I also do not agree with Our President
My fellow Democrats
we need to work hard to win the majority in both Senate and house again
FOX’s Glenn Beck just took it to another level. On Tuesday, Beck said:
This president has exposed himself as a guy over and over and over again who has a deep-seated hatred for white people… this guy is, I believe, a racist.
FOX has a horrible track record on pushing racist propaganda and Glenn Beck appears to be taking the network to an even lower standard. He’s trying to divide and distract America when we should be coming together and talking about issues that really matter–like health care and the economy.
***Edited By: bharathi on 8/20/2010 4:56:21 AM*** Reason: add