I have noticed over the past few weeks that may people talk about not using store bought dog food. I have an extreme group of dogs from a bull mastiff, a french bulldog, a Shih-Tzu, and a teacup chihuahua and have alway feed natures own and eukanuba puppy mixed together. My vet who I trust recommended it. I have no problem doing what is best and when I ran across one note that said you are slowing killing your dog, I got a bit worried. If you are using a natural brand and can recommend it and tell me how to get it I would like to investigate.

Hello, To your question regarding holistic dogs foods...... There are a number of quality holistic dogs foods (I feed Royal canin) that are readilly available in your local feed stores and some pet shops. Choose a brand free of corn, wheat, beet pulp and other "fillers". Also watch out for unecessary preservitives (some of which can be toxic over time, believe it or not!)Look for toccopherols (vitamins) as a natural alternative to harmful preservatives. The eukaneuba you are feeding now is a controversial food. Like you, I felt for many years I was doing the right thing by feeding my dogs this food, as my doctor (I am a tech of 25 years) told me so! After researching this and MANY other foods, I was horrified to learn of some of the unmentionable ingredients that manage to find they're way into MANY commercial dog foods. This was verified in a discreet way through some animal shelters and humane societies (I worked for one, but NOT a contributer!) You got it, humanely euthanised (with pentobarbitol!) animal products can and do find they're way into some of these these foods. Let me stress I have no way of knowing if Eukaneuba is one of these, (it is somewhat doubtful) but they have been known to use harmful preservatives... Why do so many vets recommend these foods?? Because they carry them! Many veterinarians are not "up to date" with the nutritional aspects of pet food. A Few are experts because they go to seminars and extra schooling put on by pet nutritionists to educate themselves. It is simply something that isn't yet widely addressed in vet school. I do believe it is becoming increasingly apparant to many veterinarians that they need to become better educated in the pet nutrition field. This is not a professional pet nutritionist opinion. As I said earlier, I am a tech and have done much research, but as with everyone, I always have room to learn much more! Hope this helps you Ü

I feed Chicken Soup For The Dog Lovers Soul. The first 3 ingredients are Chicken,Turkey,then Chicken Meal. My dogs love it and do very well on it.

They have less waste ,beautiful coat, bright eyes, and full of energy.They eat less also.

***Edited By: pyrmom on 1/28/2007 9:24:56 AM***
Reason: *

by store brand some people mean the generic dog foods. or walmart brand (but check the ingredients.) i haven't looked what's in brands like Gravy Train, but those are included, too. Some dog foods can be very expensive and i think people should feed the best they can afford. if the first 3 ingredients are wheat and corn variations, i think it's not that great because those are mostly fillers. i think eukanuba is fine. i try to avoid foods with byproducts and byproduct meal. now i'm trying the lamb and rice brand from costco. from what i've read it is made by Diamond. it is a store brand, but the ingredients are good. no corn. avoid preservatives such as BHT and the other B initials.

IMHO if your dog does well on it, then feed it. No matter what people say about holistic foods, I have never seen any concrete evidence (measured studies done by a neutral party) that shows dogs fed on holistic or BARF diets are living any longer or healthier. However, I have heard of quite a few people who feed barf diets who's dogs choked to death on a bone right in front of them, or who have gotten violently ill from salmonella from eating raw meat. In regards to sodium pentobarbital in dog foods, a few years ago, responding to rumors that dogs and cats that were euthanized in animal shelters and vets offices, the FDA did a study of about 40 brands of dog food, testing for both sodium pentobarbital, and DNA that would be evident if dogs and cats were making it into the food chain. While they did find trace amounts of sodium pentobarbital in some foods, there was absolutely no DNA evidence of dogs and cats in any of the 40 food brands tested. That meant that the sodium pentobarbital that was in the dog food had to come from cattle and horses that were making it into the food chain. But regardless of where it's coming from, the amounts that were found were so tiny, the chances of there being any long term damage or detrimental effects are highly unlikely (though not outside the realm of possibility, I suppose). Unfortunately, the 40 brands of food that were tested do not include any 'holistic' dog foods, so there's no way of knowing one way or the other of those had sodium pentobarbital amounts in them, nor any other food that wasn't tested. Since this was publicized back in 2002 (the dog food testing was done in 1998 and 2000) there has been a huge change in both how dog food manufacturers are getting the meat they use and animal products that are used in foods as a result of both the report and the Mad Cow disease scare. Many dog food manufacturers are now specifically testing and working to ensure that no slaughtered animal products with sodium pentobarbital are making it into their food. Until that time, we will not know for certain what foods do or don't have it until the FDA does more testing. For your education, and more details on the study done, http://www.fda.gov/cvm/efoi/DFreport.htm A few final words. Some dogs don't do very well on the holistic diets for one reason or another. One of my dogs was violently ill for 2 weeks after we started her on chicken soup for the soul dog food, we finally gave it away because we didn't see any improvements in the other dog either. The other dog got ill from eating Canidae (which is another holistic food), while the 1st did fine on it. Finally we put both dogs on a wal-mart brand premium food called 'Maxximum Nutrition'. They look gorgeous, their coats are beautiful, they love the food and they have a ton of energy. And I saved money because it's cheaper. If my dogs are doing great on the food, that's good enough. I shouldn't have followed the crowd and changed their food to begin with. One more thing, most dogs now are living longer, healthier and happier lives than than they ever have before, kibble dog foods have a lot to do with that (probably because they offer complete balanced nutrition over the table scrap diet that was fed back in the 1940s, 50s, and from time beyond). http://www.doberdogs.com/menu.html That's a link to an excellent dog food comparison site.

In responce to the poster that stated the apparent information they recieved from a government website.... Do not believe everything you read on some internet websites to be true. As I stated in an earlier post, I have MANY years experience with canines, and they're medical appects. I am not saying that someone who feeds a cheaper lower quality food will have a dull coated, tumor laddened, sickly dog, rather thing of it in terms of of yourself existing on burgers, fries and candy throughtout your life.. You may live to be 100 without many ill affects, you may live to be 50 and die from cancer....EVERY canine is an individual just as we are, but why play Roulette with our health and/or the animals we choose to bring into our lives... To miniyar Yes, there is SODIUM PENTOBARBITOL in SOME comercial dog food, enough to be a concern. That my friend is from the canine and feline carcasses NOT phenobarbitol, an anti seizure med..this alone tells me you need to do furthur research and get your facts strait. No, not all basic commercial dog foods are aweful, in fact there are a number of them that many dogs will do fine on, but again, why not feed the highest quality human grade foods to your furry family members?! Regarding the RAW food diet. That is not a holistic approach and is not a good choice to feed. Although Canines are indeed carnivores, they have been domesticated for thousands of years and they have developed and evolved in such a way that they're systems no longer require RAW meats to thrive. Some diseases,parasitic, bacterial and pancreatic problems CAN arrise from feeding a raw diet.... So, to those of you whose dogs are doing well on common generic foods, I am happy for you, honestly! No arguement here, go with what ever works for you. Keep in mind though, you are what you eat......and so are your pets.....

You are right the report is on sodium pentobarbital, not phenobarbitol, that was my misspelling error, and doesn't change the FDA results. I have changed my post above to the correct drug accordingly. And the link to that website is directly from the FDA site, and was published from the FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine report. If that's not a good enough source of accurate information on the presence of Sodium Pentobarbital, what is, so we can all be educated on such things like you are, apparently? Oh and as I stated earlier, the FDA tested for presence of feline and canine DNA in those 40 foods tested and found NO EVIDENCE of either in any of those foods. That means that despite the fact that there were trace amounts of sodium pentobarbital in the foods, it came from euthanized cattle and horses that went into the dog food chain, not from cats or dogs. Yes they do use it on large animals besides cats and dogs, you know.

Yes, I have been schooled in veterinary medicine for many years, so thanx! I'm not going to go on and on.... There is no arguement here regarding what people choose to feed, I am just trying to enlighten folks... You are referring to one study, there have been hundreds.........

Well why don't you link the results of some of those other studies then. Nearly everything is posted on the internet nowdays, after all. Surely there's something that refutes it somewhere, right?

where can i find the studies? i'm interested in reading them. i thought dogs were omnivorous.

I do not believe this is an "arguement board" so I will stop here.... This site is simply meant as a referance for people seeking oppinion.I feel my opinion is indeed valuable as I am an educated professional veterinary technician, trainer and wildlife rehabber, but do not claim to be a DVM... As with ANY opinion, mine or anyone elses, it is just that....an opinion.... Seeking the advice of the DVM's who are educated in this particular field of study is in everyones best interest, especially the animals... As for the website links, the internet is a broad horizon with both correct and incorrect information. It is up to the individual to decipher right form wrong....Keep looking and I'm am certain you will locate all the info you need, Good luck!

Okkkk. That totally looks like a cop-out to me. But whatever. And if we go by the advice of our DVMs on the recommended foods we feed, then feeding your dog Eukanuba or whatever is fine, especially if you trust your vet the way it sounded like you do. I guess that's what all this boils down to heh.

LOL! O.K I couldn't resist! Your vet who is educated in THAT PARTICULAR field of study,(re. nutrition!) MANY are NOT and addmit so!!!!! Again, I did mention (not bash) Eukaneuba is most likely NOT a participent in the animal rendering area, but they use (or they used to, haven't checked lately..) ETHOXYQUIN! I refues to have a battle of the wits with an unarmed subject! LOL!

A lot of vets know nothing about dog food - its not their expertise. Then there are a lot of vets who know their stuff. Vets will continue to supply certain foods like Eukanuba, Iams or Science Diet (nothing against anyone who uses those foods) for a couple of reasons. One they get a kick back, and two, most vets know very little about nutrition because surprisingly, they receive no classes on pet nutrition in school. My vet sells Eukanuba food and gave us a small bag in the puppy pack when we took our boxer for her shots. I don't use that food and wasn't planning on switching. I never understood dog food labels years ago but have since learned what is good and what is bad. That's why my dogs are fed Chicken Soup for the Pet Lovers Soul. There are lots of healthy things in that dog food and believe it or not, when you open the bag it actually smells pretty good. The inside of the bag is not greasy and does not have an oily - stale odor.

Halo611....... Finally! Someone else who can comprehend the educational expertise (or lack of in some cases) of DVM'S.... Not all can be an expert in all fields of study, that's WHY we have nutritionists, general med doctors, avian specialists, opthamologists, orthopedic surgeons, cancer specialists etc!!!

I also want to add that the Chicken Soup For The Dog Lovers Soul ia a great price,15.99 for 18 pounds ,with one of the best ingredients. You get a lot for your money. One night I spent about 2 hours doing searches on the top premium dog foods,their ingredients. The Chicken Soup has the best ingredients,and is priced the cheaper brand. Like I said earlier the top 3 ingredients are Chicken,Turkey, Chicken Meal. Most other foods start off with corn,then either Beef Meal,or something. Not real meat or poultry.

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU LOVE MY PITBULLS...My saints went from dopey and dull to dazzling after I made the switch to raw (holistic) food.

Wow! I had no idea what controversy loomed over the dog food questions. Since I asked the question I will tell you what I take away from this. I heard many good comments about Chicken Soup for the Dog, and I heard the wise old statement "You are what you eat", and why should I be surprised to find out what is really in some dog foods today, have you ever read the ingredients in a HOT DOGS! What seemed to SCREAM the loudest was what I could have done without. I am a new member and on several post I have noticed a huge amount of dispute, mud slinging, name bashing and really rude comments. I wonder, if you were face to face with these people would you have the guts to say these things to their face? I doubt it. I have had to weed through the ugliness to find the answers to my question and I don't know that it is worth it. The reality is that my post caused two people to get very upset and ugly and I don't ever want this. If you review the post with the most replies you'll find a lot of ugly words. Just look at the "bitch in heat" post .. people telling others "if you didnt want to help just shut up, no one asked for your comment in particular." This is really harsh. I realize that many of you here feel as if you are experts and many of you here are. I realize that this board was created for Dog Lovers to come together and learn from each other and share with each other. I don't think this was intended to be the new "Doggy Springer Show". For what good advice I did receive "Thank you".

Dogonecrazy LOL! How right you are! Although it seems I myself have inadvertantly gotten into a "senerio" (no bad mouthing, foul language here!)with a young member, I liked what you said.Sorry I had to "sound off to her" if you will, I felt someone had to do so.. I hope that between all of us you have been able to come to some sort of conclusion regarding your pups food. You sound as though you are an intelligent individual and I am confident you will make the best choice for your dogs health and well being. Health and happiness to you and yours..

Woo, I'm young?! Cool. I hope I'm young 10 years from now when I'm in my 40s.