Wendy, I had a discussion with my son not too long ago about some of the same things you have said. Right after that I was driving down the street and saw a bumper sticker that said, "What if there really is a God?'. I think believing in God is should not be confused with believing Preachers, Priest, Ministers and Reverends. They are mere mortals.
MLS- I don't think I missed your point did I? I did get off on a tangent, I apologize for that. I was talking about your supervisor with the atheist stuff, not you. This is a good subject. I will go back and read your post again to see if I missed something. Yeah, okay I may have missed your point. Sorry. I see what you are saying. I do think that missionaries and people who hand out pamplets are just very excited about their faith and want to tell the whole world. That is very similiar to us dog owners in a way.
Wendy: I think questioning is good and is the only way we learn. I have read some of the Koran, some things about Buddha but many of the religions are very ritualistic. Meaning there is a lot to do. I guess sadly, I am lazy. Some religions dictate you go out and try to "save" others. That makes me uncomfortable. Who am I to tell you how to live? I resent the intrusion. My supervisor tells people that ask him "is he going to heaven to be with Jesus: "No. And why would I want to go to heaven there is not going to be anyone there. I don't want to be there by myself". His tolerance for any religion especially Christians is minimal. I would like to believe the dogs I have had in my life will be seen again. I want to believe they are in a better place.
Wendy, I was reading a book which was fiction about the clonning (sp) of christ. It went on to explain one part in great detail (which is in the bible)(some parts) that god is really the devil in the sense that he tried taking over the world and really aliens from another planet are the ones who put us all here and god was banished. Really interesting things that actually made me think. There is also a great series called "the left behind series" by tim lahaye and jerry jenkins that really hits home. it is also fiction but really interesting. if you like to read that is. there are 9 or 10 books in the series.
MLS- I know all about the going out and saving souls. I went to a Baptist High School. They encouraged us heavily to witness to other people. I never felt comfortable doing it, never felt the desire to do it and flat out did not like doing it. (for the same reasons you don't) This is what I mean when I was saying that we need to keep our eye on what is important...and that being God. I know there is a fine line here because some will say that if we believe then we need to tell others. I personally don't think that. I think we can be living examples without shoving it down someone's throat. So on this issue we actually agree. I have to go, my hubby is hollaring for me. We are going to watch the Redskin/Ravens game with some friends and God forbid we miss kick off. Now that is a mortal sin. LOL!!!!
"Seijun, my dogs do know right from wrong." Not in the same way people do. A person can REASON between right and wrong. A dog doesn't sit there wondering "hmm.. Should I really bite my owner's hand when she tries to touch my food? After all, she /does/ feed me, play with me, love me, etc..." I grew up being taught that animals did not go to heaven. I still believe it, there is no evidence in the Bible to show that they would go to Heaven. Just my personal opinion based on what I have read in the Bible though. After all, it would be hard to know unless you actually got to go there, and I seriously doubt anyone here has yet, lol. ~Seij
Seijun, that is certainly true no one really knows first hand about heaven. I think that everyone has their own ideas about heaven though, and whether their dogs will go. Probably a lot of it has to do with what we were taught growing up.
My original post wasnt ment to start a religous debate. I personally dont believe in god. It was shoved down my throat for years. I was just stating what i have heard from multiple other people. I think god is more of a comfort than anything. It makes you feel good that you have something to believe. I didnt say i was an athiest either. Im not quite sure what i believe in at the moment. I think most people believe thier animals will meet them in the afterlife because it makes them feel good. I would love to spend eternity with all my babies. I just dont know if that is true or not.
If there is an afterlife, it wouldn't make sense for only some beings to go there and not others. A life is a life and whatever happens to one life probably happens to all life. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed. Personally, I believe that our energy goes on in another form.
>And like I said before, if God gave animals souls, why would he then give us a right to take their life and soul from them? Why would he let us kill animals but not other people? < BUT God have us animals for both meat and companionship and love. Wendy is right, you can't say that animals don't have a soul if they can love. What about that rottweiller who dragged a little girl out of a fire and saved her life and brought her outside. Then ran to get her mom. That is love and care. How can they not have a soul?
I don't believe in the Bible. Too many inconsistencies. It was written by people who can be very biased and opinoinated. Old testament-God told people to go and fight various times and if they carried the ark of the covenant before them, they would be successful. Sorry, isn't that killing? Then Jesus came along and told us to "turn the other cheek". I'm sorry, I think it's just a lot of fairytales. But I do believe in God.
Dogs have souls and spirits. They are not as smart as some people. Some dogs are smarter than others. I have found some Labradors that are bright enough to scoff at me. They think I'm full of crap, sometimes. Things get a bit more serious when I have food. I put their minds with those of small children. If it gives you comfort to say they have no soul, so that you can kill them with no guilt, fine. Religions are an egotistical raiment that folk wrap themselves in. Most of your religions are 1000 years old. Put back in time, with your cell phones and knowledge of flight, you would be either dismissed as lunatics, or burnt as witches. I suppose those poor screaming people that were burnt for disagreeing w/ whatever religion was strongest in the area that they lived, had no soul either. Convienent. Anyway, I think you make your own heaven and hell. God is not a person, nor a man or woman, although such a seeming would not be beyond a strong spirit. If a dog spirit wanted the company of a formerly human spirit afterlife, I guess they would come together. One Halloween, I gushed to 2 strangers"Are you ready for Halloween? Oh, boy I love to wear costumes!" They asked me if I believed in ghosts. I said that some spirits are visible to eyes sensitive enough to see them and that some astral bodies can take form solid enough to be seen. They said that Jesus(that was not his real name, he was a Jewish rabbi that was born in the mideast)would have me turn away from such knowledge. I replied indignantly that Jesus would not wish people to turn away from knowledge, he was a teacher. To emulate Jesus, to become like him, an enlightened master, would be something that he would most desire in his followers. A teacher does not cripple the students' learning to always be better than they are, but rather enables the student to become more than he/she is. Jesus was the foremost practitioner of astral projection in our western history. Best known for leaving his body, and then reanimating and reinhabiting it after death. A feat unequaled. Why would Jesus not wish that same strength of spirit for all? They were a bit struck dumb...I guess the script they were reading from when they began telling their version of Jesus' thoughts had no room in it for people that improvise. I could not live my life following a script. Merely an actor playing out the words of others. Unable to play a part not handed to me on a paper.
Digger: A stereotype is a generalization of any sort. For example, someone wrote in another thread that was deleted that Muslims wear turbans. Many Muslims do not wear turbans. And all people that wear turbans are not Muslims. Some Jews wear turbans. The comments made by this poster were stereotypical and/or broad generalization. Basically a presumption for all that may or may not only apply to a few. Which brings me to labeling v. definition. I did not label you. I gave you the definition of a word. I believe you stated you don't believe in God. The definition of someone who denies the existence of God or some supreme being is defined as an atheist. I would never presume to label anyone. However, a definition of a word is completely different.