Have you ever heard of pet overpopulation? Do you know how many dogs are put to sleep every single day because of those great "breeders" out there who are trying to make "cute" puppies. I do not have anything against breeding, GOOD breeding, that is. But I am sorry, anyone who has a pregnant 8 month old PUPPY does not sound responsible to me. I am not trying to advocate adoption vs. purebred but the last thing anyone needs is another "breeder" mating their dogs to produce cute puppies for their family. "What a person chooses to do with their dog, is no more anyone else's business," Tell that to the thousands of dogs in shelters.
Acey...............Did you miss the part where Angelic said she had been in the hospital with a collapsed lung? People that are apposed to abortion, or apposed to abortion period. She is not to blame for the over population of dogs in this world, no more than she is for the homeless children.
No Cricketmom, I did not read that...I was mostly skimming through the posts. But you say she is not to blame for the overpopulation? Well, yeah she is...if she was planning on breeding her dogs anyways (even though it happened sooner than expected). I am sorry, but breeding to create "cute" puppies for her family is not a good enough reason to breed in my opinion.
Cricketmom, Do you think that people should breed because their dogs will make cute puppies? Do you think anyone who decides to breed dogs should do it? I've got Ace and Summer...a chihuahua and a pug/beagle mix. I bet I could have made a lot of money of their puppies, but I chose to have them fixed.
Longdogs4you, Again whatever my parents, or anyone else for that matter decide to do as far as where and what kind of dog or puppy to adopt is THEIR BUSINESS and THEIR BUSINESS ONLY!!!! I am irish and mexican, my sister is married to an afro american man. I could only imagine your opinion on whether or not they should reproduce. Fortunately it is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!! I guess you should know that ignorance is bliss. Apparently so is closed mindedness!! :-) I will not read or respond to anymore of your ignorant close minded posts!! Cricketmom, I wish everyone on this forum was like you!!! It's a shame that we have to walk on eggshells when posting a simple question. Very sad. Bottom line is that Angelic wrote asking about how to determine pregnancy, she did NOT ask ANYONES opinion on whether or not it was morally acceptable to breed her two dogs. Ultimately that is her choice!!! By the way, my two Yorkies are pure breds from reputable breeders, but I am now looking for a third and final dog either through rescue or my local paper through another breeder...either another Yorkie or a any small mix...AGAIN MY CHOICE!!!!!!!!!
I think cricket makes good points. Not only that, but people are going to breed dogs. Whether it's for money or because they love puppies and just want to see what it's like, they're going to do it. It's not going to stop unless it is somehow outlawed, and even then people will break the rules. I think the important thing in a situation like this is to help in any way you can. You can't stop the fact that the dog is pregnant, but you can offer advice to help her make sure her puppies are healthy when they come into this world. I think people that want to advocate responsible breeding are totally entitled if it's before the fact. Kind of like how they teach kids about abstinence and birth control in school. They are trying to prevent a situation through knowledge on the subject. But I think that once there is a pregnancy involved, there isn't really much you can say that is going to change anything. It's already happened. Or if someone has it in their mind that that is what they want, there is nothing you can do to change their mind. Like 15 year olds that want babies, you can have them take care of a baby to show them what its really like...or like someone who wants to breed dogs, you can bring them to shelters or show them literature, but if they get defensive, I think that means you are pushing too much and should back down and let them figure it all out on their own because that 'defensiveness' they are showing is really a subtle way of saying, 'Im not listening to you'.
Well my concern is for this young puppies health. She is way to young to have puppies. Even breeding on the second heat is too young. I love all puppies but if it was my dog I would have to abort for the health of my female. It is sad and unfortunate that this happened but the female should be first priority(sp). At least that is my opinion. I do know though that if my vet aborts they require that you fix the dog at that time so that they don't see you every heat. Anyway I hope your health is doing better.
Acey....................I do not have an opinion one way or the other. It is not up to me to make choices for what other people do with their dogs or anything else. I think it is fine for me to breed my dog if I choose to. It is very apparent that you feel very strongly about this, and that is your right. I see things all the time that I think are wrong, that others see as perfectly normal. I can't change them, and I am not about to walk up to them and tell them they are living their lives wrong. I doubt that anyone that has made it as far as this forum is unaware of the over population of dogs. Certainly, if they don't, that is very short lived. There is absolutely no point and it is down right rude to run someone off from this forum when they only asked a question.
Yelrose...........I doubt that you even come close to being as concerned about Angelic's puppy, as she does. She said that. She also said that she would terminate the pregnancy if her vet advise her to. Cassidy................Thank you, and once again you are absolutely correct. Good luck to you and finding a puppy of YOUR choice.
Well, I don't think I was being rude at all. I can state my opinion about how I disagree with the breeding of dogs as if it is some sport just as you state your opinion. I'm not trying to offend anyone at all. I don't think I had anything to do with running someone off of this forum either, the original poster has not even been back since I have begun to post on this thread. And believe me, I know how it feels to take everyone's strong opinions. I bought my first dog from a pet store and when I first came on this board they let me have it. But no one ran me out of here, because I kept coming back anyways.
I think that its peoples decision wheather they want to breed or not and if there going to people cant do anything about it. How do you think that the "expert breeders" got where they are now? They had to start somewhere right? Im not saying it's ok to breed mix's but with purebreeds, they have to learn somehow.
Acey.................That is just my point. Angelic has a right to her opinion, too. She said she was leaving. There again, you chose to stay. People are different. I have a friend that has cancer that has been on this forum that has cried because of what has been said to her on this forum. It is hard for me to understand that she could get that emotional, but that doesn't change the fact that she did. I can't even tell her that is wrong, because that is who she is. Who has the right to inflict their thinking on to another person? No one!
Angelic I hope that you are feeling better. Don't give her anything to abort the litter, I know some people would disagree but I've seen and heard of bad outcome because of this shot. Its just as dangerous as her having the litter. She is way too young to have pups so you may end up taking care of them or her needed a c-section or emergency care so be prepared. If people love their adorable pets I don't understand why they risk their life with pregnancy just because their family wants a pup. They can go to petfinder and find that exact same mix. I do agree with everyone about getting her fixed. If she is pregnant now you have a litter anyway. But regardless she should be fixed, even before breeding wasn't a good idea. And breeding too young isn't either, even if its planned, you said she is 8 months old now which means she could have her 2nd heat at only 14 months old, something to consider. If you have no idea what a pg dog looks like, what to do or whelping its doubtful you could learn all this in only another 6 months. And as you said yourself "I'm not a breeder obviously lol." So you have no business breeding. Please don't think its because you have a mix and people are attacking your dogs, I know some seem like they don't like mix breeds there are a lot more of them in shelters, but thats not really the issue. Even if this were a pure pek and another pure pek you still wouldn't have proper breeding knowledge, education, ect. Irresponsible breeding is just that, no matter if its breeding purebred or mixed bred. Cassidy whats wrong with bettering the breed? You are so backwards talking about puppies being produced in the attempt to better the bred might not be a better example? This is wrong to you? But breeding aimlessly because your pet is cute isn't? Breeding all sub quality dogs is okay? Filling shelters with byb pets is okay? But not real breeders trying to breed better dogs? Okay that makes sense.
Okay guys, she said she wasn't coming back so everyone here talking, it is like continuing to talk after someone has hung up on the other end of the line. Let's just drop it....... Her dog is probably pregnant, we all agree that it is not a good idea. Some agree on breeding mixes, some don't....regardless unknowledged and breeding (accidental or on purpose) of a dog too young isn't right. Okay, can we end this now.
uh...your making a bad mystake. What if your dog has about 12 puppies. Do you intead to keep them all? Like I said, cuteness isn't everything. People like you make the chance of a perfectly good pek/pug mix puppy getting adopted go down the drain. Why not adopt one instead? The reason only purebreds should be bred is there are too many mutts in the world. When I first joined terrificpets I had no idea about this either. But face the facts, there are more mutts in shelters then purebreds, and most are unwanted. Just my advice. Do as you please.
Well maybe they did leave and aren't coming back or maybe they really are lurking here. Who knows maybe they were even a troll who wanted to play for a short time, I doubt that but you never know, some come and go with different names and look to start slightly controversial things asking not to get bashed. But anyway this is for anyone thinking of breeding and taken from a previous thread. this was forwarded to me from the rescue group i'm with; really long but worth the read... So you want to breed your female? You know what to expect if everything goes right. Your little girl will present you with tiny bundles of joy. She will lovingly nurse them and care for them until they are old enough to be weaned. You and your family will find great joy in watching and playing with these little dolls, and then when the time is right they will all (or maybe you keep just one) go off to special homes to live out their lives as cherished companions. But have you given consideration to what if something goes wrong? I have listed here a few of the problems that I myself have personal knowledge of. Everything listed has happened either to me or someone I know. These are not isolated incidents. I'm sure other breeders could add miles to my list. Learn from our mistakes! Leave the breeding up to those who know what they are doing, have the experience, know what to expect. > > > > > What if during the breeding... > > The stud dog you have chosen is carrying a venereal disease and gives it to your female. She not only doesn't conceive, but you have to pay the vet bills to get her infection cleared up and she is now sterile. > The stud dog you decided to breed your darling to is not experienced. Once the two dogs are joined tightly in a tie, he decides to chase the neighbors cat out of his yard. He bolts for the cat ripping his***** loose and causing your bitch to hemorrhage from within. > Your modest girl decides she doesn't want the attentions of this gigolo mutt chosen for her without her consent. She snaps at him catching her tooth on his loose cheek and rips it open sending blood everywhere. He retaliates by sinking his teeth into her left eye. > You leave your dog with the stud owner because the breeding is not going very swiftly. In fact, it's been three hours and nothing is happening. The stud owners leave the two dogs alone in the back yard. The dogs get out through a tiny hole in the fence and a truck hits your female. > You pay the $250-$1,000 stud fee up front figuring you will make that and more back when the pups sell. The breeder guarantees the stud service to work or you can come back again. After 2 months you discover it didn't work and now must wait another 4 months to try again. Of course it doesn't work again, so in another 4 months you take your dog to another male and risk loosing another stud fee. > You get her bred. Bring her home. She bothers you so you let her outside (she is still in heat and still receptive to males). You here a commotion outside there is your girl tied up with the neighborhood mutt. When she whelps, there will need to be DNA tests done on the pups. > You get her bred. Bring her home. Let her out (she is still in heat and receptive to other males), but you do not see the neighborhood mutt breed her. The pups are born but look odd. You call the stud owner he suggests DNA testing (at your expense). You have a litter of mutts! What do you do about the ones you have already sold? > Or knowing she tied with the neighborhood mutt you decide to terminate the pregnancy and try again being more careful next time. But a few weeks later your female is very sick because you had her given a mis-mate shot creating a hormonal imbalance causing a uterine infection and now she has Pyometra and needs a complete hysterectomy. All plan of a litter are gone and your female's life is now in danger if she does not have the operation. > > What if during the birth... > The puppies are too large for the females hips. She never goes into labor, the puppies die and she becomes infected by the decaying bodies. > The puppies are coming breach and they drown in their own sacks before they can be born. > The first puppy is large and breach. When it starts coming your female starts screaming, and before you can stop her she reaches around, grabs the puppy in her teeth and yanks it out killing it instantly. > A puppy gets stuck. Neither your female nor you can get it out. You have to race her to the vet. The vet can't get it out either. She has to have an emergency caesarian section of course it is 3:00 am Christmas day. > A puppy is coming out breach and dry (the water sack that protects them has burst). It gets stuck. Mom tries to help it out by clamping her teeth over one of the back legs. The head and shoulders are firmly caught. Mom pulls on the leg, hard, peeling the flesh from the leg and leaving a wiggling stump of bone. > A dead puppy gets stuck in the birth canal, but your female is well into hard labor. She contracts so hard trying to give birth that her uterus ruptures and she bleeds to death on the way to the vet. > > What if directly after birth... > The mother has no idea what to do with a puppy and she drops them out and walks away, leaving them in the sack to drown. > The mother takes one look at the puppies, decides they are disgusting droppings and tries to smother them in anything she can find to bury them in. > The mother gets too enthusiastic in her removal of the placenta and umbilical cord, and rips the cord out leaving a gushing hole pulsing blood all over you as you try in vain to stop the bleeding. > Or, she pulls on the cords so hard she disembowels the puppies as they are born and you have a box full of tiny; kicking babies with a tangle of guts the size of a walnut hanging from their stomachs. Of course all the babies must be put to sleep. > What if because of some hormone deficiency she turns vicious allowing no one near her or the babies, who she refuses to nurse, or you have to interfere with. > You notice something protruding from her vagina when you let her out to pee; you take her to the vet to discover a prolapsed uterus, which needs to be removed. > What if when you think you are in the clear... > One or more of the puppies inhaled fluid during birth, pneumonia develops > and death occurs within 36 hours. > What if the mother's milk goes bad. You lose three of your four puppies before you discover what is wrong. You end up bottle feeding the remaining pup every two hours, day and night. After three days the puppy fades from infection and dies. > The puppies develop fading puppy syndrome you lose two. You bottle-feeding or tube feeding the last remaining baby. It begins to choke and despite your efforts to clear the airway, the pup stiffens and dies in your hands. > Your female develops mastitis and her breast ruptures. > Your female develops a uterine infection from a retained placenta. Her temperature soars to 105. You race her to the vet, he determines she must be spayed. He dose the spay in an attempt to save her life, you pay the hundreds of dollars bill. The infection has gone into her blood stream. The infected milk kills all the puppies and the bitch succumbs a day later. > > All the puppies are fine, but following the birth the female develops a hormone imbalance. She becomes a fear biter and anytime anyone tries to touch her she viscously attacks them. > > Mom and pups seem fine, the puppies are four weeks old and are at their cutest. But one day, one of the puppies disappears. You search everywhere but you can't find it. A few days later another puppy is gone. And another. You can't figure how on earth the puppies are getting out of their safe 4' x 4' puppy pen. Finally there is only one puppy left. The next morning you find the mother chomping contentedly on what is left of the last murdered puppy. > What if the new homes are not so happy?... > You give a puppy to a friend. Their fence blows down so they tie the puppy outside while they go to work. A roving dog comes along and kills the puppy. Your friend calls you up to tell you about the poor little puppy and asks when you are having more puppies. > You sell a puppy to an acquaintance. The next time you see them you ask how the puppy is doing. They tell you that it soiled their new carpet so they took it to the pound. > You sell a puppy to a friend (you give them a good price and payments). They make a couple of tiny payments. Six months later they move to an apartment. They ask you to take it back. You take it back and of course the payments stop. The dog they returned is so shy, and ill-mannered from lack of socialization and training it takes you a year of work providing socializing and training to be able to give it away. > > You sell a puppy to a wonderful home. They love her like one of the family. At a vet check done by their vet it is determined that the puppy has a heart murmur (your vet found nothing when he checked the puppy before it was sold). They love their puppy and want the best for her. They have an expensive surgery done. The puppy is fine. They sue you for the medical costs. They win, because you did not have a contract stipulating conditions of guarantee and so, as the breeder, you are responsible for the puppy's genetic health. > You give a puppy to your mother. She is thrilled. Two years later the puppy starts developing problems. It begins to develop odd symptoms and is suffering. Hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of tests later it is finally discovered that the dog is suffering from a terminal condition that was inherited. possibly from your female since you know nothing about her family lines. > One loving home decides your puppy is untrainable, destructive and wants to return the pup and get a full refund, which you have spent on your vet bills. > One loving couple calls you and is very upset because their pup has crippling hip displasia and want to know what you are going to do about it. You have spayed your female so a replacement is out of the question, looks like another refund. > > The Sale... > You put your ad in the local paper for your pups at the usual price and get only 2 responses and no sales. You cut the pup's price in half and broaden your advertising to 3 other newspapers in which the advertising totals $120.00 a week. > You get a few more puppy inquiries from people who ask all about health testing you did before breeding and if the pups are registered. You tell them your dogs are healthy and it was enough and that you could get the papers. The callers politely thank you and hang up. > The pups are now 4 months old and getting bigger, eating alot and their barking is really beginning to annoy the neighbors, who call the police who inform you of the $150.00 noise bylaw. > Your neighbors also call the humane society which comes out to inspect the care of your dogs. You pass inspection but end up feeling stressed and harassed. > You finally decide to give the rest of the litter away but still have to pay the $1200 advertising bill and the $600 vet bill. > So you gotta ask yourself...do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, "breeder?" > ~Author Unknown~ Problems, problems, but they put there cute beloved pets at risk for these to please their family/friends? All the while too ignorant to realize problems or think those won't ever happen to me. But they are real and should be considered before breeding.
I'm not a breeder,and don't ever want to be one. All I have to say is every time some one comes on here asking for simple ADVICE ABOUT A BREEDING QUESTION, you guys crucify them. What's up with that,it's rude. She's wasn't asking about your opinions or feelings about breeding,just a simple question as to wether her dog was pregnant. A simple answer as to how she can find out would've been nice,not a frigin SERMON ABOUT HOW YOU PERSONALY FEEL ABOUT BREEDING. If she wanted to know she would've asked. Now she left because of the rude responses. I see it all the time on here. God forbid if ya ask a question.
Who is they? Angelic never said she didn't want to get bashed, but she did anyway. She made the mistake of stating honestly what happened to her, and her puppy, asked for signs of pregnancy. That is it. Afer she came back and read what was written she left. There were no trolls involved in this. I don't know this for sure, but I would imagine a person being in a hospital for a week with a collapsed lung, probably needs bed rest after they go home. She did the best possible thing for her by leaving.