Well, we wanted to breed Stitch, but she had such a rough start and we couldnt figure out if she was a mini or not....plus a crappy CKC registration, so we spayed her and went with therapy.
Lilo came from good bloodlines, and her head is BEAUTIFUL, but I have been concerned with her bite and I took her to the vet.
Wry bite! the worst!! Even WORSE than a plain ol underbite. Vet said, it wont affect her life, her eating, etc...but to spay her.
So, they are letting us keep the pup we have and giving us another.
few problems here.
Right now, I cant envision my house with 3 bull terriers running around. Yes, I dream to breed and I know that ethically I cannot breed Lilo as Wry bite is a recessive genetic trait.
So, I will get a replacement pup from the same Dam and a different sire (and I hear from a friend of mine in Michigan that the sires family is in Canada and are known for bite problems) so, I dont anticipate anymore bite issues.
I dont know if its like having more than one kid, its crazy already, why not add another, but MAN, I just got Lilo housebroken thanks to invisible fence and I was just happy with two dogs.
I guess what I am asking is.....
What have you all done? Is this a sign? I have two bullies I cant breed.
Or is Someone saying, there is a reason you NEED three?
Have some of you considered not breeding when your intentions were that you really wanted to?
I love Lilo and Stitch and wouldnt send Stitch back for the refund and I wont with Lilo either. They are my family.
You need to soul search and decide what you can and can not do.
This is the hard part of dog breeding and showing and what I'm about to say will upset some.
The bigest problem with breeding and showing is that you wind up with pets, and lots of them. That is not to say that these dogs are inferior but its easy to become overwhelmed with pet dogs and not be able to advance in your breeding/showing program.
Personally, I would ask the breeder to help me place her and accept the replacement puppy. Not fun, hurts like hell, but honestly, we have to accept and respect our limits and if having two BT pets is to much, be rational about it now, not in 2 years when you are having problems. She is young, healthy, mentaly sound, rehoming her won't damage her a bit so don't think that shes going to suffer from it.
But its very very easy to accumilate extra dogs that you can not do anything with, and that drains time and finances for other dogs that you have goals with. Sure, some will be like how horrible dogs should be pets, but if any of them has a purebreed laying by their feet I hope that the sacrifice some of us have made to rehome dogs for the better of that dog, the future dogs, and our goals in furthering purebreed dogs in general will be appreciated.
I am not upset with your response at all and it all makes sense to me. It does.
It's getting thru to the heart on this. I mean, my kids love her too. I am wondering what message I am sending to them, as Lilo isnt perfect, so she will go somewhere else. To me, it's a bit bigger than that. In my perfect world, I wanted pets, Champions, that I could breed. I also know, that life AINT perfect!
We named our dogs after the cartoon Lilo and Stitch. If you remember that movie, Ohana means family and no one gets left behind and that is a BIG saying in our home. I am not sure my kids, my family would be happy with that decision because I took on this pup and I made a promise to her too, didn't I?
I also understand that it would be VERY easy, even when we DO breed that we could end up with more pups with faults, more to place, etc etc...as you said, more money out than in and it takes away from the program itself.
I am still undecided on this. I have alot to think about and I am trying to make a good, sound ethical decision for us, the dogs and our family.
As it is now, we rather live for the dogs, with our scheduals and things we would LIKE to do and LIKE to go away, but since we have them, and they require our time, we dont.
I would much rather have the cash price of the dog, even at a reduced fee, SOMETHING, to sock away in a cd and in two or three yrs when we decide we want a 4 legged pirannah in the house again, we are in a far better place to make that decision.
I don't understand why it's ok for trauma mama to rehome her dog " She is young, healthy, mentaly sound, rehoming her won't damage her a bit so don't think that shes going to suffer from it. " but diesel got hell for even thinking of rehoming her dog. I think it's the same thing. Diesel is not even a year old and healthy. Rehoming him won't hurt him one bit either but she got flack for even thinking about it. I sense a double standard. For the record, I think young dogs can be rehomed without damage to the dog. I also think even older dogs can be rehomed if need be. I have adopted old dogs in the past and I feel they were better off.
Well I dunno how old your kids are but, its not about her being disposable becusae she is not perfect. If so you'd kick her out of the house. However, those of us who will have breeding programs have but so much room. I want to keep a pup or two from each breeding that I do and that means sometimes I have to place the ones that appeal the most to me on a personal level, or if a pup does not turn out I must place it. This is one reason I plan to try to hold back two pups froma litter.
This is where we move away from the basics of pet ownership and have to make responsible decisions based off of our program and goals and what is fair for the dogs that we do have us becuase the adverge breeder will ahve more dogs at any given time then the adverge pet owner will have in a lifetime.
Not saying that to be negitive, but we're dealing with more factors then love and we have to be fair all around.
If you wish to comment on double standards prehaps you should wait until someone with them posts.
My post to Diesel said that she should rehome her dog.
However, Diesel and Trama are in diffrent situations.
Diesel has expressed several times the desire to place diesel. We agree with her, it will be for the best of the dog if she does.
Trama would place her dog because her dog was supposed to be a competition/breeding animal and becuase of flaws, she must make the same decision dozens of breeders make everyday to alter and keep as a pet or alter and place as a pet. This is because Trama will have another dog so she can continue to do compition and possibly breed from and having Lilo is not a bad thing but she has to take into account how much time she has to devote to each aspect of her life including her dog breeding program.
Diesel can not handle dog ownership and is looking for a way out. Trama is attempting to make the best decision based off of half a dozen factors.
These two situations are not the same even thou a possible outcome may be.
Hello. I stumbled on this post and wanted to give my opinion. Trauma Mamma do you own your own house? And your a stay at home mom correct? I just wanted to ask, because it will help me see how much time and space you have to give Lilo and Stitch and possible other dogs. First of all, I started off with one Miniature Pinscher, and by a year later I have 3 Miniature Pinschers, and one yorkie. I believe that you should stay with Lilo and Stitch, and instead of getting a replacement pup that could also have a defect, ask the breeder for maybe some compensation. This way here, you can buy another BT that is healthy in all the right ways. Later on down the road, get another BT that is also healthy. This way here, you have two pets and two dogs that can breed. I do not believe 4 or more well taken care of dogs are too much. If you have the love, commitment, time, and space for them, it will work itself out. If you cannot take care of more than 2, then maybe you should consider another alternative. I hope I helped somewhat.
Ah, I wish I was a stay at home mom. I am a 911 dispatcher and get stuck doing overtime on occasion. My husband and I DO work opposite shifts which means, the dogs get alot of human time and THAT in itself is what will make it easier on us when we do breed.
One thing about this thread should stand out to all who want to breed and I thank Icyhound for pointing all this out.
I *AM* trying to make informed and the best decisions I can and I am aware of my limitations.
Yes, a breeding animal CAN be a pet, but sometimes it will come down to wanting the best of both worlds (Pet and Champion) and having to choose. Sometimes you CANT have it all.
And that is what I am faced with now. It aint easy, its not glamourous and it is NOT (but I knew this) about the end result of a litter of pups. SOO many variables along the way.
Yes, I was thinking a monetary refund would be good for us.....lock it up in a cd, let it sit there for when we are ready.....
I don't think it's a sin to rehome a dog. Although, I am not in the habit of passing pets around. However, I don't think it's right that only "breeders" can rehome dogs . If you are a pet owner and wish to rehome a puppy because you made a mistake, you are a horribe person (ie Diesel Brown). Diesel got very negative responses for even considering to rehome diesel, a puppy who is not even a year old. http://www.terrificpets.com/forum/29728.asp I have seen many posts condemning people for rehoming dogs. People like KatzPomDogz caught hell for rehoming even though her pom went to a wonderful home. Her pom went to a friend and she visits that dog to this day. Is it my understanding that if you are a breeder, you can swap and switch dogs like merchandise because you label yourself a breeder? Don't these dogs have the exact feelings that pet dogs possess? I believe this to be a double standard. If you excuse Trauma because she is a breeder then why not excuse Diesel? Both Lilo and Diesel are healthy young dogs. I don't see why one person gets criticized.
Trauma.... I don't know what you should do, because it isn't me, and I don't know about breeding, or giving up dogs. It's a totally different perspective than I have. I just have a dog cuz' she's a dog. You know?
I just wanted to say that I know it hurts your kids to lose a buddy.. I know you don't want to hurt your kids... But I think that your children will learn many valuable lessons from you, as a good parent, and learning how to make thoughtful decisions, even though they are hard, is a good lesson to learn. Learning to LEARN from mistakes is a good lesson. Showing them responsible ways to take care of problems is good for them to see.
I just think that you can be sure that your kids understand the moves that you are making, and they will learn what your goals are, and they will learn how hard responsible breeding is. They will know how hard it was for you to give up your dog. They will not forget these lessons. They won't think that you toss something if it isn't perfect. (oh, they might say so now, I don't know how old they are, if they are being snotty, they might tell you how horrible you are!!! But in the end, they will understand the greater good that you were striving for.)
My father was a farmer and I have to admit that I was exposed to some brutal, horrible things for a young girl. But to this day, I am grateful for my dad teaching me the TRUTH, not the world through rose colored glasses. It ain't all pretty!!!
Good luck with your decision. I just don't want you to lay quite so much guilt on yourself as a parent. Whatever you decide is right for you.
Hmmmm Perhaps the 18th login name? You have become such a cliche'. An irate forum member making up names and trolling the discussion boards. Are we LovingEmBannedNames yet?
Scary, trying to get everyone riled up and your speeches about double standards is getting so tiresome. Ever wonder why only 1 person in the short time you could behave yourself as a welcome member could stand to be around your personality? That same member (now also banned) had a hard time making friends too. I hope that you still talk with each other because you two are a match made in heaven. A true nightmare.
You are a very hard person to try and respect or even tolerate for that fact. Time to get some help for this unhealthy obsession you have developed. It is no longer funny, just beyond pathetic.
With all of that said...So long Scarydog, LovingEmPuppies and about 15 other alias login names (not including this one) I only hope you find the perfection that you clearly desire from everyone else in the world and good luck to you on this long, strange journey you are on.
Oh Trauma Momma...Im so sorry you have this weight on your right now..i understand too well..as I had to rehome 2 shepherds bought a year or more ago..one had plano and I didnt want to trust that it wasnt genetic..and the other didnt have the temperment i felt was approate to breed. I lost tons on money...thousands...not counting vet expences...but..i had to do what I thought was right..and the decision took a long while to make...so..I say...give it some time..think about it...
As a breeder...and a animal lover..and a friend I say figure out what your real goal is..Do you want to breed/show...I see that you want to do the right things..so I applaude you on that up front...But..is is a passion...or a some day kind of thing? If its a passion...i say Icy was right on...rehome and dont skip a beat...and yes...all dogs have faults..but as a breeder you sell them as pets when they have faults...or if you dont want them to be used in breeding..( as I do ) I know rehoming is hard..But Like Kdubs has mentioned it might show your kids a different value then you think, and a positive instead of a negative....So..unless you want 3 dogs...Thats what I would do...before more time passes..it will never be easy...but..if your working toward a goal..it is what you must do...But..if it isnt your goal now..remember these dogs will be with you 10 plus years...do you want to put off your dream that long.? If the answer is yes..ok..then Im right behind you there too...because I truely know your doing things for all the right reasons..keep kicking it around..and talk to more people..you might just run up on the perfect home for her...and it will all fall into place...I wish you the best of luck..and I know you will do what makes sence for you...Take care...and take the odd comments with a grain of salt...
We both looked at each other, went OOOOOH!!! and drove back to knock on the door to see if we could see the dog.
We became friends. We see Woody often, he is 15! He was the only bullie in the area till we got Stitch!
He can barely walk, is deaf and lays around most of the day. We went to see him a few wks ago and I told my husband I just cant go back there. I pat his head and I almost cry! And hes not my dog!! lol....
the owners are very wonderful people and have so much knowledge of the breed and we said WHEN we breed, they would get a pup free of charge, just because they were so kind to us when two strangers came to their door to admire their bullie.
We arent sure if they would want another, but we were gonna throw that out there.
If we DO decide to rehome Lilo I know EXACTLY where she should go. And I believe it is something my kids would feel good about as they love Woody and know he is on his last legs....
Still mulling all this over of course.....I so appreciate all you breeders and your input, for sure. If we do breed, I aspire to be as good as you all are.
trama momma...what a wondeful idea...i think that would be a great placment...especially since your firnds now..you will see her forever...im glad that your open to thinking it through...good for you...