I bought a 10 week old shih tzu/Maltese mix from a breeder in Missouri. Not only did she arrive a day later than I was originally told, she was extremely sick!! I took my tiny, 3 lb 12 oz dog to the vet where she had, ticks, roundworm and coccidia!!! My poor puppy was sooooooooooo sick and I was at the vet with her almost every day for a week. I contacted the breeder, Julie or Phippyspuppies.com and she told me that the dog got sick here!!!! Then she went on to say how the mother may have given her ticks from being outside, then after I told her how my puppy was so sick, days later she emailed me to tell me they took the mother to get treated for roundworms "in case" she had them. I love my dog but I think the least the breeder could have refunded some of my $700! What can I do? She has a very vague return policy on her website. Thanks.
And another thing i'm concerned about it how do I know this woman really gave the dog her shots, like she claims she did herself. As a medical record, she just send me an email with the names of the vaccinations and the age the puppy should get them. How do I know she really administered them? I am so disgusted with this breeder, how can she claim to care about what she does? Seems to me that she only cares about the money!!
Im so sorry to hear about your experience. Im so sick of people like us being scammed. Ive been through two similiar experiences and Im still fighting back and forth with the sellers. All I can tell you is what I have done. Email them and tell them you will be filing a claim through their state attorney generals office and then you will file a small claim at your court house. Also mention that when you file a claim for an online transaction the seller will be expected to show up in court in your state. If the seller does not show up then you win the case by default. Tell them that at that point they will have their assets garnished for payment. I would sue for medical expenses and for sale under false pretenses. Warn them and after that follow through. It works, you will win!!
Well not saying that she is one, but Missori is one of the states that has a high volume of puppymills.
You said she told you that she had vacinated the puppy, but did she say anything about deworming the puppies.
A lot of breeders give their own vacinations. I do but I take the label off the bottle and stick it on a piece of paper that is sent home with the puppy. That way the new owners vet knows exactly what the puppy received.
Since almost every puppy has roundworms and depending on were you live cocidia is very common also. I'm not sure there is anything you can do other then if you buy another puppy either local or far away make sure the puppy has been dewormed. That still doesn't mean they won't have worms when you get them home, but they shouldn't be as sick as your little one is.
Then again they could be. I know one of my puppies seemed fine when it left, but the next day ended up being ill. They took him to the vets and he had worms. She couldn't remember what kind though. My puppies are dewormed three times before they leave. So it is possible that she did deworm and vacinate and yet the puppy still got sick.
I am sorry for all the problems you are having with your puppy, but it is fixable though can be expensive. She should have given you a slight discount though, but some breeders never give cash refunds.
I would ask your vet about the vacinations. If they feel they should go ahaed and give the puppy one or wait until the time the breeder said to give it.
I hope that your pup is better soon..I can not speak for your breeder (for lack of a better word) But if your in doubt..ask the vet about the shot. i would hope that you dont hold against all breeders what happened to your pup. Most are pretty good about vet care and paracites..i wish you all the luck with your baby
I bought my sibe through a breeder who has an online site. She is located in Missouri and I received a vet/health certificate stating vaccines and what temperature she had been climatized to. She came in on Northwest and at least on the receiving end in Seattle, they're very serious about those certificates. My other sibe came from South Dakota and the vet had to fill out a form the State Department of Agriculture. She also came in on Northwest. I'd be looking at vet who signed the cert as well as the breeder. My breeder in Missouri is registered with the state as well. Hope your baby gets better soon, but please, Please, PLEASE do everything you can to make the breeder and vet accountable for the puppies illness. People like that give reputable breeders a whole new set of problems (see Anna's of Norwalk for a real horror story).
Langniappe, I have to disagree with your statement about Coccidia. It is not a problem of "where you live", but due to environment and keeping your kennel clean and sanitized.
Coccidia (Coccidiosis): A Cause of Diarrhea Race Foster, DVM Marty Smith, DVM Drs. Foster & Smith, Inc.
What are coccidia?
Coccidia are small protozoans (one-celled organisms) that multiply in the intestinal tracts of dogs and cats, most commonly in puppies and kittens less than six months of age, in adult animals whose immune system is suppressed, or in animals who are stressed in other ways (e.g.; change in ownership, other disease present).
In dogs and cats, most coccidia are of the genus called Isospora. Isospora canis and I. ohioensis are the species most often encountered in dogs. Regardless of which species is present, we generally refer to the disease as coccidiosis. As a puppy ages, he tends to develop a natural immunity to the effects of coccidia. As an adult, he may carry coccidia in his intestines, and shed the cyst in the feces, but experience no ill effects.
How are coccidia transmitted?
A puppy is not born with the coccidia organisms in his intestine. However, once born, the puppy is frequently exposed to his mother's feces, and if the mother is shedding the infective cysts in her feces, then the young animals will likely ingest them and coccidia will develop within their intestines. Since young puppies, usually those less than six months of age, have no immunity to coccidia, the organisms reproduce in great numbers and parasitize the young animal's intestines. Oftentimes, this has severe effects.
From exposure to the coccidia in feces to the onset of the illness is about 13 days. Most puppies who are ill from coccidia are, therefore, two weeks of age and older. Although most infections are the result of spread from the mother, this is not always the case. Any infected puppy or kitten is contagious to other puppies or kittens. In breeding facilities, shelters, animal hospitals, etc., it is wise to isolate those infected from those that are not.
What are the symptoms of coccidiosis?
The primary sign of an animal suffering with coccidiosis is diarrhea. The diarrhea may be mild to severe depending on the level of infection. Blood and mucous may be present, especially in advanced cases. Severely affected animals may also vomit, lose their appetite, become dehydrated, and in some instances, die from the disease.
Most infected puppies encountered by the authors are in the four to twelve week age group. The possibility of coccidiosis should always be considered when a loose stool or diarrhea is encountered in this age group. A microscopic fecal exam by a veterinarian will detect the cysts confirming a diagnosis.
What are the risks?
Although many cases are mild, it is not uncommon to see severe, bloody diarrhea result in dehydration and even death. This is most common in animals who are ill or infected with other parasites, bacteria, or viruses. Coccidiosis is very contagious, especially among young puppies. Entire kennels may become contaminated, with puppies of many age groups simultaneously affected.
What is the treatment of coccidiosis?
It should be mentioned that stress plays a role in the development of coccidiosis. It is not uncommon for a seemingly healthy puppy to arrive at his new home and develop diarrhea several days later leading to a diagnosis of coccidia. If the puppy has been at the new home for less than thirteen days, then he had coccidia before he arrived. Remember, the incubation period (from exposure to illness) is about thirteen days. If the puppy has been with his new owner several weeks, then the exposure to coccidia most likely occurred after the animal arrived at the new home.
Fortunately, coccidiosis is treatable. Drugs such as sulfadimethoxine (Albon®) and trimethoprim-sulfadiazine (Tribrissen®) have been effective in the treatment and prevention of coccidia. Because these drugs do not kill the organisms, but rather inhibit their reproduction capabilities, elimination of coccidia from the intestine is not rapid. By stopping the ability of the protozoa to reproduce, time is allowed for the puppy's own immunity to develop and remove the organisms.
How is coccidiosis prevented or controlled?
Because coccidia is spread by the feces of carrier animals, it is very important to practice strict sanitation. All fecal material should be removed. Housing needs to be such that food and water cannot become contaminated with feces. Clean water should be provided at all times. Most disinfectants do not work well against coccidia; incineration of the feces, and steam cleaning, immersion in boiling water, or a 10% ammonia solution are the best methods to kill coccidia. Coccidia can withstand freezing.
Cockroaches and flies can mechanically carry coccidia from one place to another. Mice and other animals can ingest the coccidia and when killed and eaten by a dog, for instance, can infect the dog. Therefore, insect and rodent control is very important in preventing coccidiosis.
The coccidia species of dogs and cats do not infect humans.
Ok so I guess I just got three diffrent puppies that were kept in unclean envoriments.
I figured it was common since like I stated I have purchesed three puppies that were infected with cocidia. Plus when I was working at a vet clinic almost all the dogs were treated for cocidia or giadia.
Our third puppy had cocidia, giadia and was animic to the point it gave her a heart mummer. We never thought to accuse the breeder and try and shut her down or sue her.
She was very nice though when we told her of the puppies problems she did knock off some of the price. We never asked her too or expected her to. Our only consern was the heart mummer. Which our vet said should go away once we got her over being animic. The breeder told us to let her know and if the heart mummer didn't go away then she would replace the puppy with one out of the litter coming up.
I am going to stick my two cents worth in here for whatever it is worth. I also take the label off of the bottle of the vaccine....place it on the health certificate or the shot record and keep a copy of such in my customers' file. Sometimes we do forget to take the label off......but most of the time, we do. All puppies have to be dewormed....there is no way around it. Even if a breeder deworms a puppy, it is in weekly or bi-weekly intervals. Sometimes a new owner will have to continue the deworming phase for awile. I have to disagree with the person who posted the Coccidia info on here because that is not a 100% correct piece of info! Coccidia IS NOT ALWAYS caused by an area being unclean! Birds carry coccidia and transmit coccidia to dogs through their bird droppings. Any dog who eats the droppings can contract coccidia! Mother dogs do pass on coccidia to their unborn who must be treated when old enough. Because we live in an area where many birds congregate in the woods......they fly in our dog runs for dog food and water.....we have to put medication off and on in our dogs' drinking water to help reduce coccidia infection. I am here to tell you that sometimes dogs DO eat the feces of other dogs........puppies eat feces of other puppies and in a litter of puppies, there is just no way to possibly keep puppies constantly clean. We clean all of our birthing units and crates with Tri-fectant disenfectant solution and place fresh paper down all the time........we have even used shavings in with the puppies but they always get the shavings in their water and food so badly that we quit using them.... the mother dogs go in and out for bathroom breaks......and they will make a birthing unit dirty in 2 seconds from coming in from outside if it is raining!!!!!! I wish more people would become breeders so they would stop making breeders out to be villans or out living off their dogs. FOr the woman who said she thinks the breeder should refund you, I ask What for??? The breeder worked with YOUR puppy from the day it was born until the day you took possession...... whatever you paid for that puppy hardly paid the breeder for her time and expenses, if any at all. There is no money to refund if a breeder has done everything possible to provide you with a quality pup. If your breeder had dipped your puppy a few days prior to shipping, the pup would not have had ticks....she should have also inspected the pup better in the coat and the stool. I am surprised, however, that the vet did not see the coccidia in the stool sample if a fecal was provided at the time of the health check up. This would be the vet's fault and not the breeders' fault. Another thing is the advise given as far as the transaction being an "online" transaction and now the breeder must come to YOU if you take her to small claims court is ridiculous and incorrect info. YOu have to go to HER if you wish to sue her and if the breeder has a no refund policy, you will not get a refund. Coccidia, ticks, fleas and worms are treatable through simple medications that can be purchased at any feed store...they are inexpensive and easily obtained. Just follow the instructions and your pup will be fine. I wish more people would become literate on how to treat their pups and dogs so that they would not panic when something this simple occurs.
I am so sorry for you and horrified at yet ANOTHER story like this of purchasing a pup on-line. I am thrilled that you have had the resources and the desire to have your pup treated and that she is on the road to recovery.
In reflection, I'm amazed that I was able to place all of my litter in wonderful homes, with folks that trusted me!
It also amazes me that I still receive calls at LEAST a couple of times a month and e-mail several times a week from folks looking for a pup. This despite the fact that ALL the pups were placed nearly a year ago and I clearly state that this was the one and ONLY litter for me, even before the loss of Angel.
As the others have mentioned, did you receive a current health cert.? If so (once again, as they suggested) I would call that vet to make sure he/she actually SAW your puppy.
I can only speak from my own experience. For the pups from my litter that flew (all at LEAST 12 weeks of age btw) a health certificate was a MUST. The first one also had the Dept. of Ag cert. They flew Continental cargo (so they were NOT in a hold, but were in the body of the plane). The airline was clear that pups HAD to be certified by the vet to be at LEAST 10 weeks of age. They were also VERY clear about required shots and health certificates.
The pups could not get on the plane without an up to date (as in less than 10 day old) health certificate. Nor would I have let them GO without the written ok from the vet!
I flew 3 pups. 2 had the vet exam the evening before, the last one the morning OF the flight. The owners were also provided with a shot record FROM the vet, with exam dates, shots, wormings and dates administered.
ALL of the litter had health certi. issued within 1-2 days of going to their new homes along with updated vet records FROM the vet, including the girl I kept.
I am generally speaking, NOT a dense individual, but I am stupified at the horror stories I see here on an almost daily basis!
>>I have to disagree with the person who posted the Coccidia info on here because that is not a 100% correct piece of info! Coccidia IS NOT ALWAYS caused by an area being unclean! Birds carry coccidia and transmit coccidia to dogs through their bird droppings. Any dog who eats the droppings can contract coccidia! Mother dogs do pass on coccidia to their unborn who must be treated when old enough. Because we live in an area where many birds congregate in the woods......they fly in our dog runs for dog food and water.....we have to put medication off and on in our dogs' drinking water to help reduce coccidia infection.<< Lakeridgekennel ======================================== I agree with what you say, and that's what makes it environmental. I live in the Pacific Northwest and live around as many trees, birds and water as any.
What you say is in the article under: How are Coccidia Transmitted? and How is coccidiosis prevented or controlled?
It is not limited to specific regions of the country or certain weather conditions. The importance of keeping the environment of your puppies clean, I think, is the best prevention. We don't have outdoor kennels, we clean our hands constantly, visitors also. We take our shoes off inside our house. I know it can happen at any breeders kennel. We also administer our own vaccines after the initial vet check/vaccination and put the labels from the bottles on their health records. ======================================= Langniappe, I'm sorry if you think I was accusing you or something. That's not what I meant.
Like I was saying..I bought a Griffie from a kennel in Missouri...He had kennel cough..And a trachae that was to small...We took him to the vet and took him to the vet...He was a year old last week...We had to put my baby to sleep..He was limping...I took him to a bone specialist...He was going to have to have four operations.
At the risk of offending some, if you're dealing with a young, small animal that has not one, but 3 forms of parasites ...it is serious. Had she not taken the puppy to the vet when she did (beliieving she had received a healthy pup), the situation could have become far worse than it was.
ltlgto for you and the many other experienced breeders who do your own shots, my hats off to you! I was always too chicken so paid the vet to do them! I know your philosophy on breeding, having read your threads many times in the past. You are a wonderful breeder. You know your breed and care about the quality of the lines you are producing. You check your bitches to insure they are healthy BEFORE breeding and provide proper care while they are pregnant. You take the utmost care of BOTH mother and pups. I can no more imagine YOU providing a pup in the condition of this one than I can see myself doing so.
lakeridgekennel, I'm sure you are likewise an excellent and caring breeder. In this case though I feel I have to disagree with you. It is up to the breeder to provide not only a cute, but clean and healthy puppy. This breeder did not. She let a very small, young pup with parasites, which weaken the immune system fly to her new home.
Yes, owners must de-worm every now and then. Fleas and ticks must be prevented and checked for. As for coccidia, I'm FAR from an expert. All I know is that I live in S. FL, 1 mile from the water, with woods behind my home. We have TONS of birds and despite this have (thankfully) never had a case of it with any of our dogs. Perhaps we've just been terribly lucky.
There are as many reasons for breeding as there are breeds. It is my own, personal opinion that in producing living creatures, it is the breeders responsibilty to insure that each one has the care, love and attention the breeder expects the new owner to provide that pup.
Langniappe, what I mean is that it is contractable in any part of the country. Some things are more prone in certain areas of the country such as heartworm. It generally occurs more in the warmer areas. We have heartworm here on occasion, but the climate helps keep it down.
Thank you Pyrmom for your kind words. We were stunned to find out that a friend? came over to see our puppies sired by her stud. After she had been at our home, we found out that she had coccidia in her house and didn't tell us. We were not happy when we found out and she has never been in our house since. We give vacs only after the pups have had their first vet checks and vacs at 6 weeks of age.
To the OP, I'm sorry you had to go through this with your new furbaby, and am happy to hear it's on the mend. Things do happen, puppies get sick. It is up to the breeder to minimize the chances. Our pups are dewormed probably 3-4 times before going to a new home, along with all the other dogs in our house. If puppies are de-wormed, so are the adults.
Pyrmom- Thank you for your very well written opinion. I couldn't have said it better myself. I still feel if I, as a consumer, purchase a dog for $1000 (that frankly couldn't have cost the breeder more than $150 to care for) I expect a healthy dog to arrive. Nothing more, nothing less.
Well no matter what about the worms. A lot of them you don't know that a dog has them untill you do a fecal on them and since that isn't a requirement for a health certificate it probably wasn't done. Infact the only two worms I know of that you can see with the naked eye is roundworms and tapeworms. The rest you need a microscope for.
Anyway besides the worms the vet should have seen or at lest felt the ticks when he did the body exam. There for not given the health certificate for it to fly.
The breeder and the vet should be held responsible for this. If the breeder even took it to a licensed vet to start with.
Both breeder and vet should have seen the ticks and treated the puppy for them.