We had to take Conan to the vet this morning. He is so sick. Last night he climbed onto the sofa with me and just layed there. It seemed pretty odd but I was half asleep. After a couple of minutes he started wiggling, like he could not get comfy. It was late so I put him in his cage and I went to bed.

About 2:30am he started whining so my husband took him outside and he just collapsed in the yard. He could not stand up to go to the restroom. We thought it was an injury, which again was odd since he had not gotten hurt.

By the time we got him to the vet he could not stand on his back legs and he had a temp of 105. They think it is steroid responsive meningitis.

Has anyone had any experience with this? The vet really did not waste time talking to us because she wanted to get to Conan. I looked on line and I can't find a lot.

Anyone with info please let me know. We won't know for sure until this afternoon what is really going on.

. pns tp spazz

***Edited By: IVYdragonN on 9/28/2005 6:20:17 PM***
Reason: spazz

Oh Daisy.... wow.. I have no info to offer...
I am so sorry , ((Hugs)) to your baby and you... I hope everything will be alright.

OK, I think it might be something different. In my freaked out state this morning I forgot that Conan had vaccinations this past Saturday.

Does anyone know what the signs of an adverse reaction are? Conan is at the vet right now and they have not called me back yet.

daisy, so sorry to hear this. I hope conan is better.
I do not know what vaccinations can do to dogs but I do know what they can possibly do to babies. I take care of MRDD's whose parents will say I don't know what happened to my child, she was fine at birth but at 8 mos.................
anyway I struggled over whether or not to get Tsions shots and decided that they do more good than harm. I really hope it is something else and not the shots. Please keep us posted.
You might want to ask your vet if someone is at the clinic over night with him.

The vet actually took Conan home with her. I found that out later last night. She seems to be a pretty amazing person.

As for the shots or menegitis, I'm not sure yet. I am calling in an hour, if I can wait that long.

Thanks for all the concern.

I've never heard of a vaccination reaction that would cause symptoms like the ones your dog is showing. The worst I've seen is vomiting and diarrhea. That's not to say that it could not be a reaction because sometimes, like one vet I worked for used to say "they don't read the textbook". But to me it seems unlikely that it would be a vaccination reaction because they normally occur with in a few hours of giving the vaccination. We did have one patient come in with similar symptoms as Conan only he would stand and just lean to one side against the run wall. He was severely disoriented, and before he left us he was unable to stand on his own. One of the possible diagnosises was meningitis, but it turned out that he had a cancerous brain tumor. I don't want to scare you I'm just being realistic. With the symptoms you described it just doesn't sound goo and if its a neurological problem, well, those just aren't easy to deal with. I do hope that the vet is able to do something and that Conan will be okay. This particular case broke all of our hearts. He was such a sweet pittie. Anyway, hang in there. If your vet can't figure it out, don't give up. There are specialists out there that if you're willing to spend the money they can do more tests than your regular vet could and you'd have a higher chance of finding out for sure what it is and maybe even a treatment for the problem. I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Please let us know how he is doing and what the vet says. Hang in there. (hugs)

I just talked to the vets office and his temp is back up to 104. I have no idea what is going on. The only things that I find on the internet are breed specific diseases.

The vet won't be back in for a while. I am going crazy here.

Here is some info on meningitis; it is very technical but is fairly good info. I do have a friend whose dog recovered from meningitis. He is fine now, and has not relapsed, so there is some hope. Best of wishes for you and your dog.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/101400.htm&word=canine%2cmeningitis

Inflammation of the meninges (meningitis) and inflammation of the brain (encephalitis) often occur simultaneously (meningoencephalitis) in the same animal, although either can occur separately. In animals with meningoencephalitis, the clinical signs of meningitis often precede the clinical signs of encephalitis and may remain the predominant feature of the illness. Causes of meningitis, encephalitis, and meningoencephalitis include bacteria, viruses, fungi, protozoa, parasite migrations, chemical agents, and immune-mediated diseases. In ruminants, generally bacterial infections are more common than other causes of meningitis or encephalitis. In species other than ruminants, especially adult animals, viruses and protozoa are as frequent or more frequent causes of meningitis or encephalitis than are bacteria. Some causes of meningitis or encephalitis, eg, rickettsia and certain bacteria, occur seasonally.

Etiology and Pathogenesis: The incidence of meningitis and encephalitis is fairly low compared with that of infections of other organs. This appears to result from the better protection offered to the nervous system by its barriers, rather than to a scarcity of infectious agents that can attack the nervous system. Infections of the nervous system often are the result of some injury to its protective barriers. In all species, direct extension of bacterial or mycotic infections to the CNS can occur from sinusitis, otitis media or interna, vertebral osteomyelitis, or diskospondylitis; these infections can also be secondary to deep bite wounds or traumatic injuries adjacent to the head or spine. Iatrogenic infections are possible from contaminated spinal needles or surgical instruments. Infections may occur if CSF taps are performed in animals with bacteremia. Brain abscesses also can arise from direct infections or by septic embolism of cerebral vessels. Pituitary abscesses in ruminants are thought to originate from bacterial invasion of the rete mirabile surrounding the pituitary gland. In chronic brain abscesses, an adjacent or occasionally diffuse fibrinous leptomeningitis may develop. A spontaneous bacterial meningitis or meningoencephalitis can develop in dogs (although less commonly than in farm animals) from which various bacteria ( Pasteurella multocida , Staphylococcus aureus , S epidermidis , S albus , Actinomyces spp , and Nocardia spp ) have been isolated. Bacterial endocarditis and septicemia are important sources of CNS infection in dogs. When bacterial infections do occur, they are more likely to be sporadic than epidemic.

Bacterial meningoencephalitis often affects neonatal farm animals as a sequela of septicemia caused by Escherichia coli ( Colisepticemia: Introduction , Colibacillosis: Introduction) or streptococci; Actinobacillus equuli infection is an important cause of meningoencephalitis in foals. Failure of passive transfer of immunoglobulins is the single most important factor predisposing neonates to omphalophlebitis or enteritis, with subsequent hematogenous spread of the infection to the CNS. In older or adult animals, well-recognized disease entities, such as thrombotic meningoencephalitis (TME) of cattle ( Haemophilus somnus , Haemophilus Somnus Disease complex: Introduction), Glässer's disease of pigs ( H parasuis , Glässer's Disease: Introduction ), and H agni septicemia in feeder lambs, also cause meningoencephalitis by the hematogenous route. Listeriosis ( Listeriosis: Introduction , Listeriosis: Introduction , Listeriosis), which is caused by Listeria monocytogenes and is a common infection in cattle, sheep, and goats, is an example of a multifocal brain-stem meningoencephalitis that ascends to the CNS via transaxonal migration in cranial nerves. Pasteurella haemolytica and P multocida , although usually resulting in fibrinous pneumonia and hemorrhagic septicemia in ruminants, occasionally produce a localized fibrinopurulent leptomeningitis. Meningoencephalitis due to P haemolytica has also been reported in horses, donkeys, and mules. Actinomyces , Cryptococcus , and Streptococcus spp are sporadic causes of meningitis in adult horses.

Other agents that can cause meningoencephalitis, especially in dogs and occasionally cats and other species, include Toxoplasma and Toxoplasma -like protozoa, Neospora caninum , Sarcocystis neurona , Acanthamoeba castellani , Cryptococcus neoformans , Blastomyces dermatitidis , Histoplasma capsulatum , Aspergillus sp , Coccidioides immitis , and Rickettsia spp (Rocky Mountain spotted fever, salmon poisoning, and ehrlichiosis). Rarely, other fungi, such as Cladosporium trichoides , Paecilomyces variotii , Flavobacterium meningosepticum , and Geotrichum candidum , cause meningoencephalitis. Aseptic suppurative or eosinophilic meningoencephalitis associated with aberrant migration of parasites into the CNS occurs with a number of species, especially Parelaphostrongylus tenuis in goats and llamas. Viruses such as those of canine distemper, canine parvovirus, feline infectious peritonitis, malignant catarrhal fever in ruminants, and sporadic bovine encephalomyelitis also produce meningitis in addition to encephalitis. Eosinophilic meningoencephalitis is an unusual inflammatory response to salt poisoning in pigs. Unicellular plants, Prototheca wickerhamii and P zopfii , can also produce an eosinophilic meningoencephalomyelitis in dogs.

Several idiopathic meningoencephalitides are recognized in dogs. A pyogranulomatous meningoencephalomyelitis occurs in mature Pointer dogs. It has been reported as an acute, rapidly progressive disorder. The lesions consist of extensive mononuclear cells and neutrophils infiltrating the leptomeninges and parenchyma, especially in the cervical spinal cord and brain stem. An etiologic agent has not been identified. Granulomatous meningoencephalomyelitis (GME) or inflammatory reticulosis is a more common CNS disease of dogs (mean age 5 yr, range 8 mo to 10 yr). A possible variant of GME has been reported in young, adult Pug dogs (Pug encephalitis). A steroid-responsive suppurative meningitis affecting mainly young (<2 yr), large-breed dogs and a severe necrotizing vasculitis and meningitis syndrome in Beagles, Bernese Mountain Dogs, and German Shorthaired Pointers have both been identified as possible immunologic disorders with a hereditary predisposition.


Clinical Findings and Lesions: The usual signs of meningitis are fever, hyperesthesia, neck rigidity, and painful paraspinal muscle spasms. Dogs and occasionally horses display this syndrome acutely and sometimes chronically without clinical signs of brain or spinal cord involvement. However, in diffuse meningoencephalitis due to any agent, depression, blindness, progressive paresis, cerebellar or vestibular ataxia, opisthotonos, cranial nerve deficits, seizures, dementia, agitation, and depressed consciousness (including coma) can develop, depending on the rapidity of onset, severity of pathology, and location of the lesions. In neonatal infections, omphalophlebitis, polyarthritis, and ophthalmitis with hypopyon can accompany the CNS inflammation. Because of its unusual pathogenesis, listeriosis often causes asymmetric vestibular dysfunction, with head tilts and circling. This is in addition to other cranial nerve deficits, such as facial and pharyngeal paralysis. In TME of cattle, the nervous signs tend to be peracute, with sudden collapse and profound depression of consciousness (stupor or coma). Fever and limb stiffness may be the only signs detectable in the prodromal stages of TME. Clinical signs of pyogranulomatous meningoencephalomyelitis include neck rigidity, kyphosis, inability to raise the head, reluctance to move (eggshell gait), and limb incoordination (ataxia). Sometimes, bradycardia, vomiting, and in chronic cases, atrophy of cervical muscles may be seen. Cranial nerve signs may include Horner's syndrome and paralysis of any cranial nerve but most commonly the trigeminal and facial nerves. The signs of GME in dogs vary with the distribution of the lesions. Visual deficits, neck pain, behavioral disturbances, ataxia, weakness, cranial nerve deficits, and depression all may be seen. The ophthalmic and focal forms of GME have a rapid onset, with acute loss of vision or balance but may then progress insidiously over many months. The disseminated form of GME has a shorter, more fulminating course, with death typically occurring in 1-8 wk.

Pathologic changes characteristic of bacterial meningoencephalitis include diffuse infiltration of both neutrophils and mononuclear cells into the leptomeninges. Frequently, the entire subarachnoid space of the brain and spinal cord is inflamed. Vasculitis of meningeal vessels and CNS arterioles is often pronounced. Bacteria may also invade the CNS parenchyma, resulting in mononuclear and polymorphonuclear infiltration with large areas of perivascular cuffing. Necrosis and malacia of the CNS may be seen, with infiltrations of macrophages, neutrophils, and plasma cells. Listeriosis uniquely causes microabscesses deep within the CNS parenchyma, which consist of accumulations of neutrophils and microglial cell reaction with central liquefaction necrosis.


Diagnosis: The analysis of CSF is the most reliable and accurate means of identifying meningitis or meningoencephalitis. CSF should be collected whenever history or species or breed predisposition suggests meningitis or encephalitis, or whenever clinical signs suggest a disseminated or inflammatory CNS disorder. Without CSF analysis, an animal exhibiting back or neck pain and perhaps a mild fever may be misdiagnosed. In the early stages, meningitis can easily be mistaken for intervertebral disk extrusion, polyarthritis, pleuritis, pancreatitis, or pyelonephritis. Dogs with bacterial meningitis and encephalitis, steroid-responsive suppurative meningitis, and vasculitis and meningitis typically have high numbers of neutrophils (×103/µL) in the CSF. The protein content of the CSF is usually significantly increased (100-5000 mg/dL), with an increase in the globulin component of CSF. Occasionally, bacteria are seen on cytologic examination of the CSF and identified with Gram's stain. Successful culture of bacteria from CSF is more likely in large animals than in dogs. In some cases, serial blood cultures are more successful for isolation of the causative organism. Viral infections and listeriosis typically produce a mononuclear pleocytosis in CSF; the total cell count and protein levels are mildly to moderately increased, again with an increase in CSF globulin. Granulomatous inflammations usually induce moderate to high cell numbers and increased protein in the CSF. The cell population is predominately mononuclear, and it can be difficult to distinguish between a granulomatous infection (eg, a fungal infection) and idiopathic GME. However, in pyogranulomatous meningoencephalomyelitis, CSF analysis usually reveals a neutrophilic pleocytosis (500-1000 WBC/µL). Cryptococci and occasionally protozoa have been identified in CSF, but usually serology is necessary to confirm mycotic and protozoal infections in vivo.


Treatment: Other than for animals with the probable immune-mediated, steroid-responsive inflammatory CNS diseases and animals with meningoencephalitis caused by certain bacteria, the prognosis is guarded and treatment often of little benefit. Appropriate use of antibiotics, according to culture or serology results, is basic to successful therapy. Relapses are common, and prolonged therapy is often necessary. Correction of any immunodeficiency is critical in neonatal large animals. Broad-spectrum antibacterials such as ampicillin, chloramphenicol, tetracyclines, trimethoprim-sulfas, and third-generation cephalosporins are used, but higher than normal dosages may be necessary to achieve and maintain adequate concentrations in the CNS. In farm animals, selection of drugs must be based not only on drug efficacy but also on whether the available drug is appropriate for use in a food animal. This may further limit the selection of drugs that can be used.

Mycotic infections of the CNS have been treated successfully in man, but results in veterinary medicine are less promising. Protozoal infections (eg, toxoplasmosis, neosporosis, sarcocystosis) may respond to a sulfa/pyrimethamine combination or to clindamycin therapy. However, relapse may occur due to the inability to clear encysted organisms from the CNS. Glucocorticoids are usually contraindicated in animals with meningitis or meningoencephalitis with an infectious etiology; however, a high-dose, short-term course of dexamethasone or methylprednisolone may control life-threatening complications such as acute cerebral edema and impending brain herniation. Immunosuppressive doses of corticosteroids are required for successful therapy of the idiopathic CNS inflammations seen in dogs. Supportive care should be specific for the needs of the individual animal and may include analgesics, anticonvulsants, fluids, nutritional supplementation, and physical therapy.

Thank you for the info. What little I have read does point to some form of meningitis. I know it's curable, just tough knowing he is sick.

we have a vet appointment for hunter this afternoon because yesterday he was acting weird like he couldnt stand up very well, he had a temp of 104 and he has spent the last 2 days sleeping, we were concerned about lymes disease but now i will ask the vet about menengitis. he also looks like he is shivering a bit now i am really concerned

Daisy you and Conan .. are in my thoughts...
wishing and hoping for a speedy recovery.

I would get him there right away. Conan has been there since yesterday morning and they cannot keep his fever down.

I did not think about Lyme's Disease. But they have not really been able to tell us much. Vet's don't like to deal with meningitis because they may have to do a spinal tap to prove or disprove it.

Those symptoms are just like Conan's.

I wish I knew the outcome of Conan as my dog Lynus (a sweet Weim) had similar symptoms. Here is his history/status:
1. Wednesday night he kept to himself for about an hour. This is unheard of for him as he loves to stay around us.
2. Thursday night before his walk he looked to stumble at one point but continued on without a problem.
3. About 30 minutes after the walk he was working hard to get comfortable (up the stairs, down the stairs, walking in circles).
4. 15 minutes later I notice his head barely but noticably jerking left to right. When I talked to him he would try to get up but couldn't. It looked like he had lost feelings in his back legs and couldn't control his front legs very well. Eyes were assymetric as one was kind of bulging with a large pupil with the other very small.
5. Took him to the Emergency Vet.
6. They did all kinds of blood tests and other tests. Phosporous was low (this symptom was odd) and his blood pressure, heart rate and breathing were very elevated.
7. Left him there overnight.
8. Morning brought some minor improvement as he could stand (barely) but not walk.
9. Went to the internist and she did lots of other tests: ultrasound of panchreas and liver (normal) and a CT scan of his head (all normal, no tumors or inner ear infections).
10. Performed spinal tap and began treatment for Meningitis (as the odds of this being the problem are now significant).

Now we wait. So far about $1800 spent and worth every penny.


Jim

I started some extra training with my 2 year old Border Collie / McNab at a local farm ranch that raises and sells goats, sheep, pigs, chickens that they raise for skin, food, etc. They also offer dog training and agility training. after the 3rd week of training and 7 days, on a Thursday night we played ball and did our usual, then went to bed and when I woke in the morning she was no where to be found, finally searching I found her in the spare room under the day bed. She came out with her head hanging low, seemed very weak - I said to her "What did you eat"! because she loves to eat (everything) usually the kitty food and then she gets a little gasy. that night the same thing - the next morning she had a slight girgle in her throat and still was week and felt extremely hot. I put the leash on her and took her to the car, she could not jump up into my little car - I picked her up and put her on the seat. When I arrived at the hospital I lead her out of the car and she fell onto her head! I dove to the ground to pick her up. Oh my little girl. I rushed her in to emergency and she had a 106.7 temperature. They admitted her and put her on iv fluids to help from dehydration and antibitics to break the fever, day 2 at the hospital slighly lower temp, but now has pneumonia and getting more ill. Morning of day 3 I had to pick her up and take her to the day vet so they could continue iv. that afternoon I drove her to UC Davis - where they admitted her and put her in an Oxygen box so she could get air - the next day they called and she wasn't any better - they kept running all sorts of test. From the first day I took her to the vet all the way to the end they tested her for everything - except they hadn't checked for spinal menigitis - yesterday (the 6th day of being ill and dieing) I asked them to put her to rest - I didn't want her suffering any more. She was dieing quickly and my bill was over $4,000. I would have spent whatever if only they knew what it was and the treatments were working - but nothing was working! her temperature continued to fluctuate from 103 to 105 and the only thing keeping her alive was the IV. She had stopped eating (which was her very favorite thing to do in life) I am so very sad! Now I have a 10 year old Border Collie / McNab that I am taking everywhere with me, even to work so I can watch her. She seems to be warm and starting to show signs of weakness in the the rear end - it could be overreacting since she is just about 11 years old. I am going to the vet this afternoon to take her! Oh my god! I can't loose 2 of them. Someone help me!
What is this - ???? UC Davis is doing a complete optopcy on my 2 year old - pending results - I live in fear that I may loose my 2nd Dog. I have been cleaning things for days! Isn't there a vacination for menigitis for dogs?

I'm sorry to hear about your Border Collies. I hope it recovers and hope you can hold up, losing pets that we love is so very hard.
Here is the latest on my dog (a Weim named Lynus). The internist checked his liver, bladder and panchreas via ultra-sound, no problem. The CT-scan was clean, no tumors and no infections (I had suspected a deep inner ear infection). She performed a spinal tap and a large amount of fluid came out without pressure from the syringe, she also immediately put him on steroids and antibiotics. Within a few hours he was up and walking around but still was weak. About a week has gone by and he is home on a lot of medication. He still acts a little depressed (I relate this to pain) but likes to eat which is a good sign. He doesn't like to sleep with us like he used to nor is he as affectionate to my wife (he was a big baby always putting his lead on her lap) but this may also be a response to pain (maybe headaches??).
$2600 was the cost so far and worth every penny as we have our Lynus back and we give him lots of loving.

I'm still hoping for some improvement.

Jim

hi there well i have had the same problem with my dog she was always sleeping and seemed weak when she wanted too get up she finally fell a couple of times going outside so i knew something was wrong,anyways,i took her too the vet and they said they could see that she was not stabe on her feet and just sent her home he said she needed rest,so i broht her home and about 4:30 this morning she was shaking on the floor having a ceaser adn i thought she was going too die never saw anything like that before i rushed her too the vet and they did blood tests and sain the it was menigitis,and that she has a 50-50 chance she is only 2 and is like part of the family,right now they have her on antibiotics and intervenus,and said that she had 3 more ceasers so its tough thts for sure

i just want too say that we have lost our baby girl tonight do too meningitis,and there was nothing that the doctos could do,how is that possible 3 days ago she was fine,they gave her morphine and penicilin and did nothing,i just dont understand why there is not a better understanding on menigitis,just boggles my mind anyways good luck too whose all there pets that are sick i hope that they all get better

We just took our 9 month puppy to the ER on Sunday. We took him because he ate a plastic toy and we thought that he was obstructed. Well $350.00 later and missing 25 pieces of a chew toy and we thought that we were in the clear. However, he wasn't better Monday morning, in fact he almost seemed worse and to top it off, he cried when I had him move his neck left and right. That was yesterday and we still weren't sure what the heck was going on, we thought maybe there was still something stuck in there. Last night we gave him a few enema's and this morning he was back at the vet's office. The good news, the barium series that they did showed nothing, he's all clear on the inside. But, they now think that he has menengitis. His fever was 105 this morning and he was slighyly dehydrated. I have no idea what will happen next. He's on an IV and getting pumped up with antibiotics, I'm just praying that things turn around. I lost my best friend this past summer to cancer, he was 10 and just as much of my child as the ones that I have given birth to. Duke didn't replace Trooper but he's helped to fill the void and he's probably the sweetest puppy I have ever come across in my life. Now we just have to wait and see if my little boy can pull through.

I don't know much just that my 1.5 year old Chocolate lab is experiancing the same symptoms and the are treating her for meningitis. How are you all making out? I am just looking for some ray of hope. I am soooo sorry for all of those that have lost my thoughts are with you.