I was wondering if anyone has used ivermectin for their Australian Cattle Dog? I have spoke with a couple of breeders and they say that they have used it with no problems (only if a female was in season she would not settle which doesn't concern me). My vet said he cannot recommend it. I had a post about some of my dogs coming down with demodex other than two they are unrelated. When I put revolution on them they did not get any worse. My vet was going to speak to a dermotologist about this but he was unable to get in touch with who he wanted to because of the holidays!
I am trying to stress to him that I want to do something and he suggested another dose of Revolution in the meantime if that stopped the progression of this. My husband wants me to go ahead and treat with the ivermectin.
I feel bad as the two that have the most signs people don't want to pet etc and I feel like they shouldn't be running all around my house.
One of the three vets I have seen said it was contagious and in the dirt etc and bleach or hot water to remove??
TO SAMDOG: Last year I rescued a gold lab. He had worms really bad and kept dropping weight. I tryed every dog wormer on the market, a friend who runs a dog rescue recommended I try a little bit of Ivermectin. (I rescue horses so I had it on hand) I gave him some and within a week I noticed his appetite was back, his energy was back and after a couple weeks his weight was improving.
So yes a little ivermectin will not hurt your dog. Ivermectin as you probibly know is used in horses for worms. However I have found it also helps w/lice, flees and other skin irritations, it may just help your dogs. Its worth a shot and it wont hurt them.
***Edited By: hugahorse38 on 12/28/2005 8:51:24 AM*** Reason: include more info
I do realize that it is okay to use in some dogs but I know in certain collie breeds and australian shephards and similiar dogs it is not tolerated. Basically it crosses the barrier to their brain and can do to the dogs what it is only supposed to do to worms.
I have talked to a couple of breeders of ACD's and they have used it though..
Demodectic mange can be contagious (sp) if more than one dog/pup has the immune problem for it. I know of someone who had a heck of a time clearing it up in a whole litter of puppies. They kept reinfesting eachother.
Ivermectin is a broad-spectrum anti-parasite medication generally used for food animals and horses. It is licensed for use in dogs and cats as a heartworm preventive and as a topical ear mite therapy at this time, thus the use of this medication to treat demodicosis is not approved by the FDA. When ivermectin was a new drug it was hoped that it could be used against demodectic mange mites. At first it was found ineffective but later it was determined that daily doses are needed (most other parasites can be controlled with wormings spaced several weeks apart.) Ivermectin is inexpensive relative to Milbemycin (see below) and involves no labor-intensive bathing. It DOES, however, taste terrible if given orally (it may be necessary for the owner to learn how to give ivermectin as an injectable treatment.)
Sensitivity to ivermectin may not be predictably limited to "collie breeds" and thus it is often prudent to use a lower test dose before initiating the relatively high doses of ivermectin needed to treat demodicosis. Not all individuals of collie heritage are sensitive to ivermectin and a test is in development to determine whether an individual should be able to safely take ivermectin or not. There is a range of ivermectin doses used in the treatment of demodicosis and it seems that higher doses do clear infection faster than lower doses. This means that if a lower dose has been ineffective, a higher dose may still work. This does not mean that a pet owner should experiment with ivermectin doses on his or her own, as there is some potential for lethal toxicity if this drug is not used appropriately.
***Edited By: scout1 on 12/28/2005 10:50:55 AM*** Reason: added info
I have heard that collies could be harmed using ivomec. But I dont know if a cattle dog would compare to a sheltie or collie? I wouldnt risk it unless you've tryed evry other ave.I have to many dogs to afford heartworm and I use ivomec once a month for that reason and they always come up HW negitive during thier yearly check up and never had any skin conditions. You must be careful with doseage or it could harm the liver.I use injection for cattle & swine orally at 1/2cc for each 20 lbs of dog weight. The vet cant recomend it because its not FDA approved for that purpose. But its the same thing they put in hW medicine, its just more closely measured. Seeing that you have a herding breed I would be alittle careful with you decision.
But aren't the a legged parasite? So in theory couldn't they crawl from one dog to another? Or if they share bedding (like head lice). If a dog doesn't have a problem with it they are fine. If the dog does have a problem with it, then they become infected too. I have seen it go through a kennel, because boxers have immune problems with it. I also thought that is why Demodex is a problem with puppymill dogs. I AGREE that to normal dogs they cannot spread or be contagious. I just think you are wrong if you have a lot of dogs that have the problem with it.
Scarcopic mange is just 'scabies', and yes those are highly contagious too.
There are some that live outsite the hair folical. Isn't that what vets are looking at when they do a skin scraping? The mites?
***Edited By: alicat1 on 12/28/2005 10:53:46 AM*** Reason: ad
ali did you read the link ? you may want to as it has information in it regarding breeding dogs that are affected as there seems to be a genetic predisposition to it. could be a clue why you saw it run through an entire breeding kennel ....... NOT because it is contagious ..... because it is not. maybe if you have doubts about the contagious factor you can write to the board certified veterinarian that published that article and ask her about it.
Two products that i have used and had success with are Nu-Stock (stinks real bad but works) and beleive it or not Campho- Phenque works real good too. An old timer told me about the Campho and three days staight of applying it to the area and on the fourth day i already noticed hair growth.
Thanks everyone and this is more food for thought with this whole thing. Actually my horse vet was here earlier too and he is confused with everything too. I have been to see three different small animal vets and my dogs range in age from 6 to 6 mos. Only two are related and they are a couple of different breeds. 3 are australian cattle dogs, 1 is a lab, and two are miniature dachshunds. The two youngest 6 mos. ACDs show signs the most. But even my six year old lab has thin hair in areas. The two long haired dachshunds you really have to look closely to see that there is thinning in some areas. I feed a natural lamb and rice food (and lamb and rice are the ingredients-they aren't added to corn and other products). They are up to date on vacs of course and I occasionally use frontline if I suspect a flea but usually I only need that a couple of times a year. Sometimes I use revolution instead of interceptor for prevention..
My house is not dirty. (I say this because on vet told me that it was found in dirt and stuff). I wash the covers of the dog beds regularly and my two couches are covered with a sheet that is washed. Even in our barn the only place they hang out and lie on is hay bales and the ones that are down are fed out daily. There are three places that I suspect this could come from. I took care of two pups that had demodex for a couple of weeks but was assured that it was not contagious..The mom also had a previous litter that had this condition. So I did believe it was hereditary. They were not related to any of my other dogs.
My three ACD's were doing the neighborhood a favor and working on eradicating the family of skunks that live above us. The lab helped too and they would bring the carcasses down and play with them and share them with the other dogs.
My mom adopted a dog this summer who always seems to itch and is still doing this but no hairloss and maybe as he was at the shelter 4 mos plus he could have picked up something?
I have had skin scrapings done on the two younger ACD's.
One of the other ones had scrapings done where hairloss occurred and found nothing.
Another thought I am entertaining is is it possible to have picked up scarpotic from the yucky animals wild and lower the resistance to demodex??
I did put revolution on everyone and that has stopped the hairloss from progressing. One vet told me that rev is not approved for demodex.
I wish I knew for sure whether the ACD's are sensitive to ivermectin. I have talked to people who own them that raise them and they have used it.. Iwould like to just be able to treat them all for like a month and then redo skin scrapings and see if it's gone. Amitraz is not a good option I think as how will they get that around the eyes and mouth successfully??
I'm really trying to get as much input on this whole mess as I can, as you can imagine I am awake nights worrying!!!
Yes thanks but it's the same food I've used for years and Lamb and rice are basically the only main ingredients not corn or other things they can be allergic to.. It is a higher priced food too and natural I guess.
I've seen people use a mixture of sulfer and and oil on hunting dogs for mange and I've also seen them use creosol dip but I dont think I'd want house dogs running around with that on em. But you seem to have mess if all of yours are affected in some way with it. What does your vet say? Lamb dont have allot of fats in it and meat that a little greasy is good for the dogs fur so you may want to try Nutro, it costs as much as what your feeding and its main selling point is how good it is for skin and coat disorders.
***Edited By: duchess on 12/30/2005 11:59:57 PM*** Reason: spelling