I got the call yesterday afternoon that a friend's husband's beagle was about to whelp and they were nervous and asked if I could come help. They have both parents but I really didn't ask if this was an intentinal breeding... I suspect it was at least to a point.
These are definately 'hunting' stock. Mom is liver and white, dad a tri-color. I had NO idea so many puppies could come from such a little dog! She whelped the first 10 live, and I couldn't get the last 2 going, even though they were nice sized puppies. Must have been in the canal too long :(
I would be surpised if she has over 9 by tonight there was an extreme runt that almost looked like an embryo. 1/3 the size of the others with a big belly. Not to be mean but kind of didn't like touching it. I knew the girl was bred, just didn't know about my 'planned' involvement in it... thought I would share. Naps today for sure.
I almost asked to take them last night, but I really need to ask my husband first. I don't have any puppies right now... besides one... empty nest. I am not doing anything else and I really don't trust my friend/husband to take care of them properly. I convinced them to mover her/pups from their UNHEATED garage to their heated basement, but I would prefer they were in my kitchen!
She has homes lined up for 3, but I have a feeling she would want me to help her advertise the rest... which she knows I do for my mentor with boxers. The difference is that I know my mention has equally nice dogs and gives equally good care. I don't want to have anything to do with sick uncared for puppies.
It would really be charity for the puppies, though. I imagine that I would spend more on milk replacer to suppliment than she would want to re-imburse me. I asked and beagles of this quality go for $200-275 around here. Sweet momma though. She started out huge and she is like a thin de-flated balloon right now. Decisions. Guess I better ask hubby before even thinking about it any more.
I think beagles are such cute little dogs (well, ok-some of them are cute, big fat dogs!) But I don't think I would ever actually want one. But I have to smile every time I see a beagle! Hopefully, this litter will all turn out to be healthy-maybe even the little runt. Any ideas what's wrong with it?
No idea. Honestly if I had to guess I would say they probably just threw mom and dad in together for the entire heat cycle and the other pups were concieved much earlier and the little one is just very premature. Or, there is something genetically wrong with it, either way I don't think its chances are very good. Though I did get it to nurse.
Unfortunately this is what I'll prob get to experience in a few weeks. I have a friend that has decided to become a backyard breeder of Tiy Fox Terriers....I've spent hours on the soapbox with no results. She has never done this in her life, clueless to the point that she didnt even realized they 'tie', she figures that mom can deliver herself and she didnt expect to have to be there, afterall they do it in the wild themselves.....grrr
Anyhow, I agreed to help deliver the pups (least I can do for this poor mom) And when she was bred they kept her and the male together 24/7 the entire heat cycle, running free in the house to breed as many times a day as he would the entire 3 weeks. I explained the development issues this would cause, fatality rate, etc. She said, well thats what the neighbor does (the neighbor has mini aussies) and the highest fatality rate ever.
I have a feeling this is going to be heart breaking.
Nice. Glad I am not the only one. I feel like a dog mid-wife. What are you going to do though? My friends probably couldn't tell if she had become distressed or had a pup stuck. She would have probably died. I would have felt terrible. I don't know, it is hard when people put you in that position.
I'm ure it will mostly...sideline coaching, she is a very skittish dog and wont let anyone near her except her owners, so I'm sure there is no way I'll be able to do anything hands on unless she hands me a pup. They have no idea when she is distress, when a vet is needed (hoping a section is not needed, they have the money but will not be impressed spending it). Hopefully no pups will need worked on, but I am expecting unformed preemies due to the breeding method. This person calls me in a panic over everything with the dogs, even when they bleed from a nail cut.
I'm not thrilled, but will do it for the dog, I love my friend, but they just dont get it. Hopefully she is telling the truth and she will be getting spayed after this.
Beagles are just not meant to have 12 puppies..WOW! The largest I've ever had was 9 and all lived but, it was WORK! I would think that the smaller less developed ones were because of lack of room for the placenta to attach well. There isn't much room in a little beagle for that many. In my experience when dogs ovulate they ovulate all eggs at one time and it takes 48 hours or so for those eggs to ripen enough for a sperm to penetrate so, the chance that one or 2 were concieved before the others is not likely. All the reproductive specialists I've spoken to say its just not possible.
I wish you well if you take them. Beagle puppies are hardy little buggers and seem to not take a great deal of care to keep going as long as they are healthy and there is no other underlying issues.
Thanks beagles. My husband says that it is up to me but he agrees that we will probably spend more than the value of the puppy she would give us. I don't care though it is really not about that. I just don't know how to offend my friend or seem like I am insulting her ability to raise puppies, but I know she won't raise over 6 if she isn't tubing and supplimenting. Or at least doing a good rotation. I went back over there today and the males were already a LOT bigger than the girls. The tiny-tiny is a little liver and white girl and the next smallest is a tri-girl.
Right now I have been over there a lot, maybe I will offer to care for them and sell them for her if she will split the litter with me. That way she is techincally just collecting the $$ and has no work. She may think that is fair. Like I said from what I know of beagles they are a poor quality, literally the selling point is that the parents are good rabbit dogs. I would like to have my spay/neuter contract go with them anyway.
Beagles1 are hunting quality beagle buyers going to go for the whole 'must neuter' or are hunting people going to pass on them because of that?
Oh my gosh. She took the deal. I am taking the pups. I must really be bored, stupid or crazy. I will photobucket pics probably this weekend, but I got to go now. I can't believe this. This is like instant puppies. I have to get out my newborn medical supply box kit and formula, then pick up the BEAGLES!!! I can't believe this! What did I get myself in to...
Alicat - 10 points for you! I know what you're doing is an awesome act of kindness for those puppies. And I know that they're going to grow up better for it.
I 100% understand where you're coming from. A friend of my Mom's purposely bred their Alaskan Malmute having NO idea what they were doing. In the middle of her pregancy the husband got transfered so the whole family packed up and started the moving process. The left their 8 week old pregnant dog with another friend (who we know as well) who has never even owned a dog let alone whelped puppies. She wasn't prepared to care for a large dog and of course, the dog ended up chained up outside. My Mom spent HOURS talking to both parties trying to get them to understand that the Momma dog needed much better care. My parents raised Malmutes for about 10 years before they had kids (My Mom was told she couldn't have kids - she ended up with 5... :)) so my Mom knew that the Momma probably could handle the litter on her own, BUT she needed somewhere comfy and safe to deliver her babies. FINALLY she got them to move the dog into a heated basement, but man alive were those people stubborn.
I HATE it when people compare domesticated animals to those in the wild!!! SO not the same thing.
And this is a perfect example of why those who think breeding laws should be enforced need to stop looking at responsible breeders as the problem! Alicat is so responsible when it comes to dogs - she'll take care of someone else's litter to make sure it gets what it needs and to insure they get placed on neuter contracts!!!
"Beagles1 are hunting quality beagle buyers going to go for the whole 'must neuter' or are hunting people going to pass on them because of that?"
Nope.. they'll want them with open registrations. Most "good" hunters are also breeders and if one of them were to be a great one in the field they'd want to carry on with it. I'd honestly target pet buyers instead. Pet buyers typically want a puppy thats raised right in the best environment and if your going to raise them in your home then they have that going for them. They might not be as pretty as what those of us who show have but, they'll make fine little pets ;-) Just make sure you let potential homes know the REAL truth about this breed. They are not for everyone. They must only go to homes with secure fencing. Beagles don't make good Apt. or condo dogs. They are naughty and need room to exercise. They can be loud as well.
Crap, poop, the other word....dang it! I was afraid of that. Okay, what if they already come spayed/neutered? I think everyone knows that I am not for it 90% of the time. I generally trust families to get it done, but if I can't find families that want to do it... see my thinking here? Not that it makes a ton of difference 3 of the 5 females are spoken for and they will not be spayed, they will be out there having litters of 12 of their own some day. The other 2 females are the runts of the litter and they are on the fence of making it at all.
I don't even know where I could get early spay, other than the anti cruelty society in Chicago, and I don't know how early they will spay or if they will accept 'my pups' here in MI. I know they only charge $25 for dogs m/f so it would be worth the drive if they did. I guess the down side or scary side is that I don't want just don't want to be stuck w/ 7 beagles that hunting people won't touch because they have been neutered.
No offense, beagles are really cute little dogs and I like the momma a lot. Hmmm... I will have to think about this.
I have been tube feeding the bottom 4 everyone except the 'runt' girl are doing really well. It seems that even with tube feeding she hasn't gained anything. Honestly I am assuming there is something wrong w/her mom has been rejecting her. I am not giving up yet though, tiny little peanut, she seems to want to live. I will keep everyone posted. Thanks.
"3 of the 5 females are spoken for and they will not be spayed, they will be out there having litters of 12 of their own some day."
How are 3 of the 5 already spoken for? Are these going to hunters that the owner of the bitch knows?
If you target your puppies to strictly pet folks you'll be fine. I have no trouble getting my pet buyers to sign a spay/neuter agreement and so far I've never had one not do what they were supposed to do. Since we register AKC we also make registrations limited. Not sure if these are registered or not?
Most likely your little runt will not make it. I try to keep them going to a certain extent but, not to the point of heroics as they usually die anyway.
Yeah. The owner is keeping pick female and then they have a hunting friend that wants a pair. You know how it goes.
Thank you beagles1 for all your help and advice. I know you probably find it a bit annoying, people just creating random pet quality puppies. I would if they were boxers, but they are already hear, so I appreciate the help with a bad situation.
I was wondering if I advertised from the 'pet' perspective instead of 'great hunters' if I could find nice homes. Mom is a dream. Couldn't ask for a nicer dog, and dad is good too they have kids and my kids both play w/ him.
Beagles are good in general w/ kids right? I don't want to be selling 'mean' dogs to people w/ kids. Also if I raise and socialize them in my kitchen w/ my kids and pets like I do the boxers, that should also make a difference.
I was thinking IF I can qualify for ACS in Chicago, I will definately do the early spay/neuter for these guys. Which I normally don't do, but I worry about the families purchasing a puppy in this price range not wanting to spend the $$ to get it done. Vets around here charge upwards of $120 for spays/neuters. If not, I guess I will just go with my spay/neuter contract. I was also thinking of micro-chipping. That might be an added bonus, that pet people would appreciate.
Also, Thanks to Abbylynne for the compliments, I have said before, you are a breeder I look up to. That goes for beagles1, and Icy, huron, too(and I'm sure a few others I am forgetting). I wouldn't mind getting your e-mail some time so I can just direct a few questions to you guys from time to time.
Oh, by the way I got out my babyscale, which I think is a little off... but the tiny is 4 oz and the biggest are 10-11 oz. I have no idea if that is good/bad weights. I am tubing the smallest 4. I can't believe tiny is still around. I may call her miracle if she makes it :)
***Edited By: alicat1 on 1/28/2006 12:29:55 PM*** Reason: ad
here is something you might try to for the little ones. Its supposed to do miracles for new babies.
LIVER BLOOD FOR WEAK PUPPIES l large piece of liver; Water just to cover Boil slowly for 5 minutes to extract the blood Cool and drain liquid Give 4 drops every 2 hours for 12 hours, then every 4 hours until thriving
Yes when you sell the remaining puppies you should advertise them as pets not hunting dogs. Let them go be loved by people who keep them inside their homes. Beagles are absolutely wonderful with kids. They are hardy and can take a bit of rough housing. I have yet to meet a mean one. They are very pack oriented and love their families. they can be hard to house train and are ruled by their noses.
***Edited By: beagles1 on 1/28/2006 5:41:34 PM*** Reason: privacy
Thanks that is so nice of you. I got down your e-mail in case you want to edit it out so everyone doesn't have your private e-mail.
Hey, in my kit I have 'puppy drops' vitimin suppliment with liver and Iron. I don't generally use it though. I will give it a try, can't hurt with her. I will be careful though, because I *think* too much iron can cause constipation.
***Edited By: alicat1 on 1/28/2006 2:13:41 PM*** Reason: ad
Wow, alicat, you've got your hands full there! Keep us posted and some pics when you have time.
We have a breeder not far from us that has Show beagles, champion sires/dams, and has to sell her pups for $100. She said there are just an over run of people selling hubting Beagles for $50, that a normal price wont sell.
***Edited By: lpn169 on 1/29/2006 3:57:04 AM*** Reason: add