I woke up to my dogs barking ferociously. Apparently my X-brother in law did not wake up in time to take my nephew to camp. He tried calling a ringing the bell but me being a heavy sleeper I did not wake.
What woke me was my dogs going ape sh!@.
About 6 am I put out 3 of my adult dogs. One is 50#, 90#, and the guard dog female is 78#'s. She is a guard dog by nature and the smartest dog I have ever owned.
They have been raised around my nephew but not my X brother in law the few times he met them my female did not like him very much.
The few times people have jumped the fence have all been bad instances and have now made the dogs very leary of strangers at the fence. I had a problem with people trying to steal my dogs so now they react to people coming in there territory when its not threw the back door.
My dumb a$$ X brother in law was going to jump the fence and the dogs went completely nuts and did not like it. He decided since they did not like him he would hoist his 8 year old son (my nephew) over the fence to see if the back door was unlocked. Would any of you ever do that? Even if my child knew the dogs very well I would never throw my kid over a fence with large dogs on the other side and especially if they were showing there teeth.
Luckily my dogs realized it was my nephew and did not mind but continued to guard the fence where my X-brother in law was standing and were trying to get at him.
Is it me or is that one of the dumbest things you could do is to throw a 60# child over the fence with 3 adult pit bulls on the other side.
I am not saying my dogs are mean but they do not like strangers poking over the fence.
That is how alot of pit bulls get a bad rap because stupid people make some of the worst decisions possible.
It could have turned out very tragic this morning but thank the Lord my dogs knew the difference between my X- brother in laws scent and my nephew coming over the fence.
I told him he is the bravest and dumbest man alive to do that. He said that he was nervous but knew the dogs knew my nephew. I said it doesnt matter if things had gone bad that would have been his fault. Even though they knew my nephew they dont know you and smelled you and saw you first. I am baffled that anyone would put there child over a 6 foot privacy fence with 3 snarling pit bulls on the other side. I would not do it with any breed at that.
Tell me if I am over reacting.

Nope - not overreacting... I think he's an idiot! I have an 8 year old and there is no way in Hell that I would do that - no matter what kind of dogs they were. He's lucky you were home too... because the next step in that parade would have been your X BIL trying to get your nephew OUT of the backyard... being that your dogs don't like him and are probably somewhat protective of your nephew... it could have been a bad case of tug-o-war.

I would choose the right time to explain the term "child endangerment"....

That was a stupid thing for him to do, even with any breed. The dogs could have been golden retrievers - a well known family dog. And I wouldn't have stuck any kid, any age over the fence. Good thing your dogs knew him though, but it's still a pretty bad thing to do, dangerous.

I would question if your x brother-in-law should have your nephew at all. What other poor choices is he making. I wouldn't throw my kid over a fence without dogs let alone a backyard with dogs. IDIOT

No- you had and have every right to act the way that you did. It was a child that he put in danger. Not saying that your dogs are mean, but it was their yard and they already didn't and don't like your X brother in-law. I think just about any dog would re-act the way yours did. Mine always barks by my window, or bed side untill I get up to let me know something is going on. Your newphew was very lucky that the dogs knew him and trusted him. But your X Brother in-law needs someone to slap him in the head and see if there is anything up there. That was his own child he did that too.

I am glad I am not over reacting. I cant stop thinking about how utterly dumb he is. I could have possibly lost my nephew and dogs in the same day. I in no way worry when my nephew is outside playing with the dogs and jumping around. They actually love to see him and know when he is around they get to play with the water hose but them already being riled up by my X -brother in law trying to jump the fence. Uggh, it makes me sick to think that he would see these huge dogs trying to bite him and think --oh, lets throw the kid over first.
My dogs use to not react to anything and anyone could have come in our yard by chopper, fence, from off the roof or in the house or digging there way in and they would have greeted them happily. Since we had so many instances with people trying to steal them and all the commotion and me being terrified. They knew something was wrong and how upset I was and now its like they will never let that happen again. They are very, very aware of guarding there territory now and use to be happy go lucky and aloof dogs. They are very protective of my son and nephew.
Thanks for letting me vent.... and I guess you can see now why he is an X.

Here are pictures of my dogs with my son and nephew that was taken today. I am glad they are such sweet natured dogs...
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/utopiakennel/boysanddogs.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/utopiakennel/cuties.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/utopiakennel/kissydogs.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/utopiakennel/lolababy.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/utopiakennel/mylife.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>


I am not sure if my son thinks hes a dog or a horse....


<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/utopiakennel/TyandBig.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/utopiakennel/tyridingbig.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

Wow! Utopia those are some beautiful dogs! You REALLY must trust them to allow your son to crawl up on their backs like that... holy cow!!!

Glad that things worked out ok today.... but seriously - talk about "Child endangerment"....

They are all very very cute. Dogs and kids. Looks like you have some very well behaved pets. Don't worry my son things our lab is a horse to. But she loves it.

Very sweet pics! Gotta love kids and pits pictures!

I've put my child through a window in a house where there were 4 dogs... My friend was not home and asked me to pick something up for him but the door was locked. It was easy to lift Eli into the window more so than it would have been for an adult to get up there. The dogs know us all well (me, my hasband, and the kids) and they were happy to see him and were right at the window to give licks and tail wags.

I wouldn't do that if it was dogs I didn't know or if they had ever acted aggressively at all.

Also, if my dog was aggressive to strangers, I wouldn't leave them out to play unless I was either outside with them or at the window watching. Mine is aggressive to dogs, and that's the rule I follow. He is not out alone ever ever unless i am sitting directly in front of the window. I'd not want some neighbor's dog who got loose to come into my yard and be hurt or hurt Manson.

A little off subject, but that "guarding" nature is really not correct temperment for the breed, which I'm sure you know.. Hoping that one is not part of your breeding program..

***Edited By: shinyblackpit on 8/9/2006 5:08:49 PM***
Reason: sadfrtsag

They are not agressive dogs. They never barked or have ever been agressive to any strangers till a few months ago.
I had someone try and break in my house (and steal the dogs on several occasions) and there was alot of commotion and gun fire and screaming and such. My dogs have never been the same since. They knew something was terribly wrong and have never forgot it. So if someone is coming onto the property un announced or they think someone is outside they get very protective. She is part of my breeding program and agressive to humans is not a trait in Pit Bulls. What is a trait is protecting there family and they are good at that . They like all dogs should know when something is not in the norm. She is not an agressive dog but if needed she will be. She did not like a strange man looking over the fence and neither do I.
My dogs are never left outside when I am gone. I let them out at 6am to go to the bathroom and I do that everyday. They are not agressive with each other and do not need constant supervision. I will leave them in my backyard when I am home and do so every morning and night. They are dogs and do enjoy outside and I do not know about everyone else but I dont have time to sit with them for hours a day outside.

I trust my dogs with my kids 100% and have never even thought different for a second. They have never given me any reason to think something could happen. They crawl on the dogs everyday and I do not think other dogs would enjoy the kids as much as mine do.

Wow a real idiot! I don't see how people can put their kids lives in danger like that. Yeah the dogs knew your nephew and didn't harm him but their is always a WHAT IF and when that what if is what if the dogs attack my son possibility then thats not worth it. I can only think of how tragic it could have been had the dogs not known or accepted him coming over the fence. Luckily they know him and are smart enough to realize he's not a threat.

"A little off subject, but that "guarding" nature is really not correct temperment for the breed, which I'm sure you know.. Hoping that one is not part of your breeding program.."

That is true shinyblackpit, I think they did mention that they have had some problems sometimes that can change a dogs temperament from their environment like that. I wouldn't want an APBT like that, guess thats yet another drawback of the breed they are either super friendly and get stolen or they become territorial and can be dangerous. Which I guess is possible with any breed. I wouldn't want a Lab or anything that behaved that way unless professionally trained and could tell the difference between threatening intruder and a non-threat.

I didn't know they bred thats too bad, hoping that neither of those 2 dogs would ever be part of a breeding program. No offense to someones dogs because we all love of dogs, just not every dog is breed quality and shouldn't be taken as an insult. The one looks more overdone staff RE type than an APBT definatly not breeding quality. The chocolate one already looks pregnant:( Unless she is just overweight, which isn't good either it can decrease their lifespan. There are already too many bybs and byb APBTs I always hate to see more.

***Edited By: true_pits on 8/9/2006 5:45:34 PM***
Reason: ..

Truepits your judging wrong. I dont know about anyone else but I am glad my dogs are smart enough to protect me.
That female has not had a litter in a year and is 5 years old and has had two litters before( all of wich are great specimens and non agressive). The male is 8 years and is not RE bloodline but the white and blue pie female pup is. He is Carver and Beaudreaux bloodline.
I am so glad you are quick to judge my dogs but she has produced some great off spring. She is from Brooks and Carver bloodline.
I spend alot of money on my dogs and they have excellent pedigrees and no hip, heart, knee or any health problems for that matter.
If you are looking for a more gamey pit then keep on looking. I do not like the leggy, skinny, ribs showing, unhealthy looking dogs that ADBA likes to show. I produce UKC standard in pits. They too are now accepting a much more bully dog.
With Pit Bulls it is all about preference in bloodlines. Every bloodline holds a different looking dog. I am sorry you think I am a back yard breeder but maybe you should research my dogs and me a little more before you comment. That particualar male has produced some offspring that do great in UKC shows. The funny thing is he is game blood all the way and just because he is aas bigger stature does not mean that is what he produces and you have to know how to breed a dog to produce right. You have to know what your dog produces to know how to breed him. So you cant judge a book by the cover.

***Edited By: utopia on 8/10/2006 12:11:24 AM***
Reason: s

what an idiot your ex-bro-in-law is, he must've terrified the dog's too

I'm not being quick to judge you, I'm making assumptions yes I'll admit that but thats all me or you can do about anyone on a message board when we don't personally know eachother or have the whole story. Do you have pedigrees on your dogs? I never said you dog was RE I said looked like, I didn't say he would only produce that way either. You are saying he is Carver and Boudreaux do you have his actual pedigree that shows how he is really bred and where those 2 lines come in at. I judged by what he looked like, I can say sorry for that but if he doesn't represent his bloodlines or breed what else could I have thought? Wasn't trying to make you mad. A lot of dogs can be judged by their line off looks and sometimes people are wrong when they guess. Its not being funny, lines usually produce consistent structure and type but not always so people make mistakes. Never claimed I was always right or perfect at it.

Nope-not overreacting at all! Maybe that could be part of the reason he's now an X!

X brother in law is a complete idiot! I had to do the same thing at my dad's house with 3 dog's who didn't really know me. I would never have put my kids in that situation, even though they would have fit through the dog door easier than me.

true pits- Yes I have pedigrees on all my dogs!
I will send you a copy but need to figure out how to get off all my info first. I do have 4th - 12th generation listed that I can post if you like. I will definately let you see his pedigree as soon as I can get all my info off it. It was scanned so it is his actual 4 gen pedigree.
His first 4 gens are all Helms, Carver, Finn's, Freeman's and most all that leads back to heavy Carver and Beaudreaux. He even has a lot of Ch Tudor and such in his way back generation. I had a lot of fun when I researched his pedigree.
The funny thing is (well its not funny but you know what I mean) both his parents came out of the ring and no not the show ring. He and one of his brothers were too big for him to try and title. The guys dad who bred him kept him because he was such an impressive dog and was glad that the carver shape came out in him. (IF you research Carver dogs alot of them look like him but at game weight. He would look completely different if he was not a house dog). He is the biggest baby and love I have ever had the pleasure of owning. He spent the first 3 years on a chain and not treated well till I got him and he immediately took to the family life. These dogs are capable of being everything you want them to be and will please you at no end.
My dogs are by no means agressive if you were to come in my home. They would be in your lap and ready to hop in your car and go home with you. I cant help that they are now protective of noises and strangers peeping over the fence or in the house. They have changed due to some bad circumstances and so have I. If I cant help the feelings I get when I am alone at night and hear something how can I expect them to go back to the way things were? I cant let it go and be completely comfortable anymore and neither can they. It is not there trait or bred in them its the circumstances that have happended here in this house that have made them protective. My male is not so much but my female is always on the look out it seems. I have to admit I feel much safer with them by my side and love them more than I ever could. It is a funny thing how close you bond with your dogs when they save your life.

If you post all that it would probably be too much to follow, if you listed it out on here. You can post a pic of the 4 generation scanned one on photobucket or you can make pedigrees at sitstay.com I think the most you can do on there is 5 generations but if you do a 5 generation for his sire and 5 generation for his dam thats 6 generations that more then plenty to see how a dog is bred.

I'm familiar with both Finn and Freeman strains. Most dogs pedigrees can be traced back to Tudor blood, this is the foundation for most of the modern day APBT as well as Colby, Eli, Carver, and Heinzl. If you are talking old Boudreaux through the Carver blood then I wouldn't really consider him to be a Boudreaux bred dog, since most Carver blood comes either from Tudor (Dibo/Spike) or Boudreaux' Blind Billy through Eli/Bullyson. Otherwise it'd be like saying a dog is Red Boy and Colby when Red Boy is from Colby lines or that a dog is Jocko and Mayfield when Mayfield was the foundation used to create Jocko and the line of dogs from Jocko. So its what the dog is now instead of what the foundation was then which has been bred to be a variety of different lines. If you say what the dog is now its a given where it came from as well.

Blind Billy can be seen all over in pedigrees he was bred by Heinzl and off Tudor's Dibo x Tudor's Minnie. Minnie was from Heinzls stock. Heinzl and Tudor did a lot together and so did Carver and Tudor. I'm sure you already know most of thise since you have researched back to 12 generations. I also enjoy researching pedigrees and lines. I HAVE researched Carver dogs and just about every other APBT bloodline there is and many of the dogmen as well.

He does look very much like an old classic carver dog. His head, face and build are extremely similar to my carver female. There are also a lot of larger carver dogs, and they are built larger. APBT is neither supposed to be overdone resembling a mastiff like many breeders breed for or underdone and resembling a grayhound like still others breed for pencil thin legs and tiny heads, no pronounced jaw. My carver male is about 65lbs and has the solid bone of a carver dog. His sire however wasn't the typical game dog either, he was 70lbs and blue. Blue is a rare color in the APBT but its a dilute of black and has shown up in many line/inbred lines that are mainly black dogs like Eli, Carver and Boudreaux. I know there are many blue dogs so don't get me wrong, its not a rare color anymore in the breed as a whole it can be found all over the place and is way overbred, but what I mean is a naturally occuring blue pup who pops up in a litter unexpectently. My female is tiny though, I think the inbreeding possibly contributed to this, the male is bred similar but not as tight and has a 1/4 out to a seperate strain of Eli/Rascal/Carver. The female however is from a father/daughter breeding her sire/grandsire is a son of CH Rambo and her dam's dam (daughter that was bred back to sire) is from a half brother/half sister breeding in which both are offspring of CH Rambo the male is actually the blue dog, the rest of the dogs are black, black brindle. I think my female is one of the darkest black brindles I have ever seen. Rambo is a great grandson of CH Pecos who's a son of CH Carver's Diamond & Jackson's Carver so very heavy Carver breeding.

Here is some pics
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/August%2006/B58-10-06.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/August%2006/B18-10-06.jpg

She was about 25lbs last time, but she has grown some and filled out so I'm sure she's heavier, now she's a tad overweight too she gained in the last 3 weeks. I don't want to just cut down on her food, dropped it down a little to adujust it to her then decreased energy level, she looks fine now until we can excersize her. Its been triple digits here for a while now so its far too hot to run her. It finally cooled down this week, I took her out for a walk and run today while it was only 86, but of course it was impossible to hold her and get pics at the same time. But I managed to get a few, used the timer for one and tied her out for the other and she still just wanted me to play with her so I had to tell her to sit and get one. But I think their head/face are very similar.

Mine are all big babies, I swear Pits don't realize they are not people, they think they are not just lap dogs but children. One funny thing is it kind of kills the myth about mean fighting dogs. My girl didn't at all have a good start either, the jackass who had her left her in a kennel with 2 bigger dogs, they were like twice her size, she had to fight for her food and she actually was able to do it but now she is food aggressive to other dogs only not people, he never did anything with them besides feed them or fight them, sad but true. But anyway commonly I hear Pit Bulls are only mean when trained or bred to fight, which is totally ridiculous. Lots of fighting bred dogs are super sweet, even fighting dogs themselves are babies half the time, some even get along with other animals. She gets along with them unless it comes to food. Thats why I hate watching animal cops detroit, I don't know if you have seen that one, they put all Pits down no matter what. I guess they really have to in that area there are so many of them and no good homes for them, but its the stupid things they say! One time they down a litter of 8 week old puppies and said they couldn't adopt them out because they had been trained to fight and could never be trusted!!!!???? I was like WTH, you can start training an 8 week old puppy, but no matter if you are training it right, wrong or not at all its young enough to be trained the way you want it to turn out by someone else. Anyway all 8 of the pups were in a kennel together and they were doing everything but fighting with eachother, just being normal pups, it was so sad they were excited to see the animal cops who were going to take them and kill them!