Me and my friend was talking about merle aussies and how pretty tehy were.She asked if they can be bred together and I told ehr no because it will cause the pups to be double merle with lots of health problems.her reply was thats weird and maybe there is something wrong with that gene? Like if you have to watch what you breed a merle with maybe the merle is a bad gene...almost like a defect? it kinda makes me wonder maybe the merles arent a good thing.I think there is something simular in labs also?
so i was just wondering what you all thought?
not to offend anyone because merle is one of my favorite colors! :)
I've actually wondered the same thing... why breed dogs for a gene thats linked to a specific and well known defect? I think this is a case where looks wins out. People are *crazy* about the merle gene (or dapple gene) and thus breed for it. I know that the defects really only crop up when breeding merle to merle... but sincerely... how is this any diffferent from breeding a dog known to be a carrier of any bad hereditary defect? Isn't the best way to remove the deleterious gene to stop breeding both carriers and affected dogs?
And sometimes merle dogs can be 'hidden merles'. They actually carry the merle gene but the merle pattern is masked by another color.
And no, there's no color lined gene anything like merles in labs. There's a 'dudley', which is a yellow that carries the chocolate dilution gene. He has pink nose and pink eyerims, but there's no health defects/abnormalities linked to 'dudley' labs
***Edited By: Minniyar on 1/23/2007 8:51:54 PM*** Reason: add
The hidden "merle gene" is what caused 2 of my pups to be almost completely white out of a Harlequin to Harlequin Great Dane breeding. The vet explained that if both parents carry the merle gene and they both end up in the same puppy that they kind of cancel each other out and lead to white pups that can have hearing and eyesight problems. I know that this is also common in Aussies..
breeding merle to merle will cause a little of what is commomnly known as leathal whites, these dogs are usually deaf, have eye problems, often blind, and a whole host of other genetic issues. BIG NO NO!!!!!
There is nothing 'hidden' merle about harl to harl breeding. All harls are merls, just a very intersting mutation of it.
Merle itself is not bad when bred to solid. Its simply bad when bred to merle and then only 25% of the time which often translates into not at all.
If you look, most breeds that allow merle have solids as the other color reducing the chances of hidden merles. Remember that a red aussie is actually a color restricted dog vrs being an actual red with black pigment meaning it does not produce a hidden merle.
Its people being irresponsible that causes the problems. Heaven forbid we go against what we want and not breed a dog because it would be for the better. That might not get us our pretty pomchipooschnauzer mix.
If a dog is a merle, it will produce merle, it could be hidden but it will produce merle, non merle dogs(which are not hidden) but come from merle lines cannot produce merle. Just thought i'd share...i got all this from reading into merle in chihuahuas
Well, they also allow harl to black.. I've never met an ethical dane breeder breeding harl to harl, only skeazy ones thus far. The good ones were all breeding to blacks. **********************************************
Wow Mafia, you must not know many ethical Dane breeders then. There are several Harlequin Champion's out there that came out of Harlequin to Harlequin breedings. If you breed a Harlequin to a black that was born out of a Harlequin breeding, you can STILL end up with the same results as the black will still have the Harlequin genes. Yes you can solve the problem by breeding to a black that is color pure, but to call a breeder unethical by following the color breeding standards for the breed is just wrong. "Skeazy" huh? I think that's one I've never been called. Thanks for being the first, I hope you feel special.... XOXO
Sounds kind of similar to the risk in horses when you breed overo to overo there is the risk of a "lethal white" the foals internal organs usually arent completely formed and has lack of skin pigment and usually dies within hours of birth. Thankfully through genetic testing they can now tell which overo actually carry the lethal gene a.k.a. OLWS .