Not trying to stir the pot or create more mayhem but I'm a little confused with the topic started about buying puppies from breeders started by backyardbreeder (the topic is now locked so I couldn't ask the question there). I got Baxtor from a breeder and her dogs were registered with the CKC but were't show dogs and I have no intention of showing Baxtor. I got him as a family pet and love him to death. Not at all trying to be cheeky or sarcastic but is it wrong to buy a puppy just as a pet. I was told the horrors of pet store puppies and not to support it which is why I went to a breeder. My vet has been very pleased with the health of my pup....
I'm assuming I just misunderstood the original topic.....
Not to perpetuate the ridiculous argument from the other thread, but... I believe the main issue with that other thread was the argument between backyard breeders and reputable breeders. I believe that most people here agree that buying from a reputable breeder (one that has proven animals, does health/genetic testing for appropriate diseases common to the breed and has an appropriate signed agreement)amoung other things, is the best way to go (if not rescuing from a shelter). As long as you're in Canada and your breeder's CKC means Canadian Kennel Club and NOT Continental Kennel Club, you should be okay (but the fact that s/he doesn't show is a little weird IMO).
You have enemies? Good! That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
By the CKC do you mean the Canadian Kennel Club (of which I've heard very good things) or the Continental Kennel Club?
The Continental Kennel Club reg papers aren't even worth the ink/paper they're printed on. To me that should have instantly been a sign to run away, run far away from the breeder. That registry will register any dog that bears a resemblance to a particular breed, regardless of it's actual parentage. So I have a dog that's a labrador/Old english sheepdog cross, but just happens to look like a lab? Who cares, the ContKC would still register it as purebred dog, they dont care long as they get their registration money.
At the same time, certainly it's important to realize even purebred dogs/puppies that are AKC registered still can come from poor parentage. The AKC website says straight up that being registered with them is not an indicator of a dogs health or even quality. They basically are nothing more than a dog 'geneology' type thing, they maintain the pedigree records. However, an important difference is the AKC will only register a dog as a purebred if it comes from AKC registered parents that have full registration/breeding priveledges. The AKC offers numerous venues for dog lovers to participate in, from conformation to performance events like obedience and agility. The AKC also requires DNA testing on any sire dog that's used more than 5 times in it's lifetime, and will ban any breeder that's been convicted of animal abuse or neglect. So basically you're getting more opportunities for your registration money.
The big thing is the importance of getting a dog that isn't just registered with a good registry, or participates in performance/conformation events, but from a breeder who cares enough about their dogs and the puppies they're producing to do health testing on the parents. And that doesn't use the excuse that 'I don't do health testing because no one else does, or because my breed/dogs doesn't have any health problems."
These are things you generally aren't going to get by getting a dog from your 'backyard breeders' who sell cheap 'purebred' puppies, who are often breeding 2 dogs together without any knowledge of the dog's pedigree or genetic health.
Never trust a tall dwarf... he's lying about something.
thanks for the info. Yes it is Canadian Kennel Club. With my limited knowledge I felt comfortable with the breeder as she allowed me to come out and see the puppies/parents before purchase, she showed me health records and pedigree for both parents, she gave me a health guarantee, and discussed all the potential health issues with breed and things to look out for. She has also kept in contact with me since purchase to ensure things are going smoothly. When I was doing my research it said these are all good signs to look for. Thank again for the input
The thing to keep in mind is that you want to make sure when looking for a pet puppy that the litter was well planned, well thought out, and the breeder had the knowledge to actually do that. A true BYB is one who doesn't understand their breed standard and it's purpose (and honestly, in most breeds, if they have never shown a dog, they are probably reading the standard from a book and YOU know as much as they do - it's NEVER a good thing when you know as much as your breeder. You WANT them to be more knowledgeable than you are).
In most breeds, when you take two champion dogs and breed them together you get SOME show prospect puppies. You almost always get pet/companion puppies as well. The difference between a pet puppy from a "show litter" and a pet puppy from a "pet breeder" is that the structure and soundess on the pet puppies from a breeder who shows is a lot better MOST of the time (always exceptions to the rule). You want a sound dog. Even as a pet. A dog with poor conformation is like buying a car with a bent frame. It will work for a while - but it's longevity just won't be there.
A GOOD, reputable breeder who shows doesn't mark their pet puppies up in comparison to most pet breeders/BYB's. In fact, in my breed, I actually ask LESS for my pets than a lot of the BYB's in my area. We cover more of our expenses when we sell show puppies or do stud services. In our mind, we bred that litter hoping to produce the best quality we could - not to make money off the pets.
And those pet puppies from a "show litter" are usually better quality than the nicest puppy in a "pet breeder litter".
It's not just about soundess. It's also the health issues. Your breeder has to have the knowledge of the health issues in the breed in order to know how to avoid producing puppies with health issues. They need to know their lines and what health issues are present in their family trees. It's not JUST about testing (which they should do), it's also about knowledge.
Most BYB's are really good at convincing themselves and others that they know what they are talking about. The problem is - unless you know how to see through that, you may not realize you're talking to a BYB. For me, the quality of a breeder is determined by knowledge level. They could have 1 litter a year, or 10 litters a year and if they don't know squat about the health issues in their breed, or what the structure of the dog is supposed to be in order for it to be healthy and active into it's teen years - then they are a BYB.
You want to know the true test of a breeder - ask them if they are knowledgeable about these things. A true, reputable breeder will give you all the knowledge they have and then tell you they are always trying to learn more and the day they stop learning they will quit breeding. A BYB will try and convince you that they know plenty already, that their dogs and practices are good enough, and then bash more knowledgeable breeders...
My issue with buying pet puppies from breeders who JUST breed pets is that you're often paying the same amount of money for a dog bred by someone who only bothered to learn 1/2 of what they really needed to know in order to do a really good job. It's not about whether your dog will live to be 15 years old for them. It's about whether you'll enjoy your cute puppy for the first month you have it. They aren't BAD people. They just can't see the bigger picture. I WAS a breeder who just bred pets. So when I express my frustration with that type of breeder, it's also my frustration with what I was doing myself. I've been there. I know the reasons. I know the excuses. And from first hand experience I see the difference in the quality of what I'm breeding now in comparison to my first litter - on EVERY level.
And I have no problem with breeders just starting out. They are allowed to make mistakes. I have no time for breeders who aren't trying to be responsible and improve their breeding practices.
To the OP - I don't think your breeder is bad. I'm sure you got a nice pet. As a breeder, I question why they don't show or why they aren't active with their dogs outside of breeding. Showing is about learning and comparing what you have with others to insure what you are breeding is sound. Breeding shouldn't be the activity - it should be something you do to further the activity. When a breeder just breeds to produce puppies... that's where their goals end. They don't see a future for those puppies, for their own dogs, or for their program. Without goals in a breeding program, you can't better anything, improve on anything, or create a legacy. Breeding itself is an act of creating something - if they can only see the results of their creation in the now, what happens to what they have created in 10 years? Since your dog will be with you for more than right now - I always strive for a breeder who has thought about what will happen to every life they create, to their program, to the bigger picture, in a decade.
Abby I have been reading the book "Tricks Of The Trade" by Pat Hastings and I must admit it has opened my eyes to the world of structure. I kind of knew before but this book put it into a whole lot better perspective. Yes its a book but it explains it in more than just a breed standard but why the standard in general as they are all very unique but explains why it is the way it is and impact it has on over all soundness of puppies/dogs. If most puppy buyers read a book such as that one before going to look at puppies, the book perhaps isnt be all end all but it would put the puppy buyer ahead of most BYB's in terms of knowledge of structure and puppy evaluation and if the breeder didnt know what the well informed buyer wast talking about they could simply move on. I know in a million years the typical puppy buyer isnt going to read any book before purchasing but it is certainly a good idea for those wanting to make a well informed decisions or people just starting out wanting to learn more. Now everytime I see a dog I automatically start evaluating its structural soundness just for practice but I just cant help it.
I recently adopted a dog from humane society-whom they said was "surrendered" by a breeder. He is very sweet but extremely timid. I don't think there should be any problems. I think the humane society would have let me know if he would need genetic testing? I never realized all this went on. So sad.
No self respecting breeder would ever surrender a puppy of theirs to the humane society. Regarding genetic testing, honestly most humane societies are interested primarily in finding loving and forever homes for animals in their care. They test for heartworms, spay/neuter older dogs, give vaccinations to prevent diseases from running rampant, and do very general veterinary care. They don't generally have the extra funds required to do genetic testing on dogs, and in any case some hereditary problems like hip and elbow dysplasia might not show up on xrays until the dog is 1 or more years old. In any case, genetic testing is usually done on breeding dogs, and no humane society dog should ever be bred anyway.
Never trust a tall dwarf... he's lying about something.