I've been considering getting a Staff for quite a while now, been reading up and what not and taking my time since I know there's a lot to consider.
Basically if anyone has any first hand experience with these little guys, I'd be glad to hear it.
I'm mostly interested in how they behave around other dogs. Obviously, I've read everything on the spectrum about that. And I am aware it differs from dog to dog.
I don't have another dog, but I would like to take the pup to the dog parks and want to know what to expect. I also live in an apartment complex and my biggest worry is running into someone else with their dog in one of those narrow hallways, or in an elevator, even.
Is socialization the key, or even with plenty of interaction with other dogs, is there still a high probability the pup will grow up to be aggressive towards other dogs?
Basically, I've got a million questions that I can't entirely trust to books since a lot of the books that focus in on the breed seem somewhat biased one way or the other.
i dont know anyone with this breed so i wont be much help with any of your questions regarding them. but socialization from a very young age with other dogs, elevators, strange people is very important. and its important on a daily basis not just once a week. i have read various different opinions on dog parks. the key is to have every interaction with your pup and other dogs be positive ones. one bad encounter with another dog can ruin his perception on other dogs especially if it happens when he is young.
I have an English Bull Terrier, not the same I know, but known for there aggressiveness towards other dogs. It all really boils down to getting your dog used to interaction with as many dogs as poss when he/she is young, and people too. I know a few people with Staffys and they are said to be the 'Nannys of the canine race'. My dog was actually attacked in the park by two golden retreiver x's and they tore her ear really badly, she just ran up to me and lay down. Now if that had been the other way around, it would have been in the newspaper, 'Devil dog mauls family pets in public park'
I don't believe any dog is born bad and vicious, it's down to the way you raise the dog and you yourself.
Good luck if you get one, they are jovial little dogs and lots of fun.
***Edited By: Willow74 on 2/27/2005 9:55:30 AM*** Reason: typo
I have an english bull terrier too and am socializing her with people, cats and other dogs....she is doing great! Her big brother is a full grown doberman.
Its all on the upbringing!!
ps....on the Golden attack? Yeah, if YOUR dog did that, it woulda hit the paper. Funny thing I heard about our breed of dogs....we have a friend who is an owner of a Staffy and and English ....those dogs get PICKED on more by other dogs than they EVER instigate (which in his case, his dogs never do!)
I own a Staff along with 2 shepards and a Rottie. We have had him for about 3 years. He is a very good natured dog. I have 2 small children and he lets them lay on top of him all the time. We rescued him from a shelter when he was about 2. He is strong, smart and has excellent eye sight. He makes an excellent guard dog. At first he was resistant to other dogs joining our family, but within a day he got used to it. He gets along fine with my other dogs and tolerates the Rottie's constant attention to him well. He does not appreciate small creatures though (that of course is in the breed as a varmint chaser) I would recommend this kind of dog, if you have a place where they can run, chase squirrels (sometimes he catches them).
One is the clients at work with purebred staffies.
Two: Is my association with a working dog club.
I think they are awesome. Sure, watch them around the cats and other dogs, but with people they are amazing.
We have one, Cleo, and she loooveess us, bounds into the clinic at 300 miles per hour, slams into you and showers you with kisses and love. She is incredaby fun to work with, a fantstic dog, sweet, loving, loyal, mostly behaved, and she'd protect her owner with her life.
He is lovingly referred to as "Noodle Poodle." He's great with our American Bull Dog/Pit Bull mix. He has the best temperment of any dog I have ever had. Great with kids, dogs, and cats. A real people dog. He's clean, and one thing that's great is, he's not a barker. So he's not real effective as far as running off intruders or burglers.
He's very sensitive, so he get's his feelings hurt when he gets scolded for digging up a plant or pulling the cushons off the patio furniture.
Of my two dogs, people are drawn more to him with his people pleasing attitude.
So I say Am Staffs are great family dogs. With any breed, socialization is key along with basic obedience training. I'm sure you and your family will be pleased to have one for a family member.
Wow, thank you guys so much for the quick replies.
I don't really need him to do guard work, I'm not looking for him to intimidate anyone and would actually prefer he didn't unless there was some definate threat at hand.
I have read about how great they are with kids, and while I don't have any kids myself, I do have little brothers and was a little worried that the dog might be wary of them since he will not be raised with them. (They live out of state and visit rarely, but LOVE dogs.)
Also, it seems they don't breed them that much in New York (It would be easy to get an American Pit Bull Terrier, but they are too big for my apt, though I love them as well.) and it seems that the prices I'm seeing are around 1500 (including shipping), does that seem like a fair price or should I look elsewhere. (too expensive or too cheap for a quality pet, no intention to show).
Adopt PLEASE!! I never realized until I was looking for a home for two of my dogs, A pit and a staffie, just how many are in the shelter waiting to die. There are 65 in the Yonkers shelter alone. Most of them GREAT dogs who will never find a home because the only people willing to adopt them would just abuse and fight them. Please consider adoption before you buy a dog.
Well she is dog aggressive and pretty prey driven.
But it really varies from dog to dog. You also need to do a lot of socialization and training. There is no guarentee that your SBT will never get in a fight or like ALL dogs (kind of hard to expect from any breed) but with proper upbringing the dog should be easily controlled.
What size dog are you allowed in your apartment? From what I read (and people I asked) SBT can be anywhere from 25-40lbs so about the same as an APBT. You could always go for the APBT (SBT's cousin) if you are unable to find a SBT. There are a lot less breeders of them, but even though their are more APBTs you still want to find a good one.
Well that is part of the problem, the lease guy says dogs of up to 40 pounds, but they are willing to be flexible somewhat on that, so probably 50 tops.
They also specifically said "no pit bulls, german shepards, dobermans, etc.", basically all the dogs people have stigmas about. Which means I still have to clear it with them whether they know that there is a difference between a pit bull and a Staff Bull Terrier. We'll see how that conversation goes before I go buying or adopting anything.
Thanks for the pictures True_Pits, Lacey is a good looking dog. Was she always dog aggressive, or is this something that was developed. Did you adopt her, or buy her and at what age did you get her?
***Edited By: TheCount on 2/27/2005 1:07:55 PM*** Reason: ADD
Unfortunatly most people don't know the difference between dogs that the think look like pits, and actual amtaffs, pitts, etc. Hence why in many of these breed bans they include anything that looks like a pit, even if they aren't one.
I hope for your sake that you are allowed to get an staff, but mainly it's only owners of these breeds and dog enthusiasts that can actually tell the difference, or really care that there is a difference.
***Edited By: mafiaprincess on 2/27/2005 1:39:17 PM*** Reason: oops
First of all, I would highly recommend adopting a dog first before giving someone a couple thousand dollars for the same type of dog. Adoption agencies are brimming with wonderful, beautiful APBT, Amstaffs, BT's, etc. Alot of them are in DIRE need of a home. Many counties and states have bans on bully breeds that prohibit people from adopting a dog from a humane shelter, and these dogs are immediatly put on death row. The only people who can rescue them are non-profit organizations (who have permits) that specialize in this particular breed. Here is a link to an excellent adoption organization search:
I have personally adopted a beautiful 4 month old white APBT with green eyes and the sweetest temperament ever from an organization listed on this site. One thing you should know is that alot of adoption agencies screen potential adoptors very carefully. You might have to go through reference checks and a home visit, but trust me it's worth it to adopt from a responsible agency rather than a stranger who calls themself a "breeder". Anyone can sell a dog, and someone wanting to make a buck is less likely to tell you the truth about the dog you are getting (like hereditary diseases, etc).
Another thing to remember is that pit bulls are under fire by local governments who are trying to have this particular breed banned. You may live in a state (or county) that will not allow you to have a pit bull or have other restrictions.
All that said, bully breeds are the BEST! I have been around these types of dogs since I was a little kid, and I will swear by them. I have known (and been bitten by) more cocker spaniels, chihuahuas, and labs who snap, growl and bite for no reason.
Many people will argue that pit bulls of any type are agressive and will chew the face off of people if allowed to. This is a stereotype. It is true that they have been bred to fight, and may pass these traits down, but it is ALL about how you raise them. All you have to do is educate yourself on how to TRAIN a dog and you and your dog will be fine. You will occasionally come accross ignorant people who glare at you as they give your dogs a wide berth, but the only way to change that is to have the most well-behaved and sweet dog.
My two dogs, an APBT and an Amstaff, are really sweet. They are popular with all the people who go to the park with their dogs. My dogs will let Shih Tzu's and Pugs chew on them, sit on them and bark at them without getting mad and fighting back. Everyone talks about how well behaved and sweet my two babies are and what I believe (personally) works best when getting a bully breed are:
1.) Socialization - including kids, old people, handicapped people (wheelchair & cane), and other animals. 2.) Training - Come & Heel are the two most important commands for me. 3.) Plenty of excersize - All dogs behave better when they get plenty of daily excersize.
Buy a book on training - (I like dog training for dummies!) and really train your dog. Bullies are VERY smart, loyal, and have a huge will to please their master. You can train them to ASTOUND your friends and family. They are powerful, agile and alert - perfect combo for a perfectly trained dog!
Also, as long as you take your dog out to play everyday it doesn't matter what size home you live in.
Sorry for the soapbox post, but I live in the south and see pit bulls with missing ears and chained to trees all day. These dogs are one of the most mistreated animals in the US - even regular people who don't learn about the ins and outs of having a bully shouldn't own one.
And whatever you do...if you have to buy one, make sure he/she isn't coming from a puppy mill!
I have a great deal of expierence with these dogs. In fact I am the one that took in the pit and the staff from jazz. Staffordshire bull terriers and american staffordshire terriers are two different dogs. The staffordshire bull terrier is the one that is more prone to dog agression but this can be curbed if well socialized with other dogs from a very young age. They are truely remarkable animals but i must tell you that if you do not have a lot of time to devote to training these dogs this is not the dog for you. they need a consistant and firm handler. They are not dogs to be simply kept in crates and let out once in a while. Jazz can tell you first hand that a hyper or untrained Staff is a hard dog to handle. They are extremly strong dogs almost from birth. And they are very athletic. They need to be exercised and well trained . Go to the breed listing on the left and look up the American pit bull terrier, The Staffordshire bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier it will give you an idea of the difference between the dogs. Do lots of research on these dogs before you decide and please adopt rather then buy. Many are on death row right now for no other reason then their breed.
Oh, I'm well aware of the different breeds. I've read plenty on the dogs, I was more interested in real life experiences regarding dog on dog aggression than anything else.
I have other dogs that stay with my parents (they're out of state), so this isn't my first time getting involved with dogs, I don't want you guys thinking I'm just one of those people that say "Hey, that breed is cute, let me get that one." I've done research, and been interested in getting this particular breed for well over a year and a half now.
As I stated earlier however, I can not have a pit bull for two main reasons. A) They get too big, there's a weight clause in my lease and I've seen mature pit bulls that weigh well over 50 lbs. B) Property Manager of my building specifically said "no pit bulls" when I first inquired about keeping a dog before moving in.
As far as the stigma issue, you're preaching to the choir, I've read a lot regarding that sort of thing.
I do think you might have some problem with the apartment manager, however. The reason why they don't allow pit bulls specifically has alot to do with liability. If a dog that is owned by a tenant bites someone, then the property owner can be sued for negligence. This is, of course - unfair, but landowners would rather just not take any risk when it comes to lawsuits.
By the way, pits come in all shapes and sizes - take a good look at the mother and father of the pup (if possible) and usually you can determine approximately how big they will get. My Amstaff was one of the runts - he's only about 40 lbs. I think the weight thing is stupid - a 10 lb. dog can do just as much damage as a 60 lb. dog, in my opinion. Depends on the training.
Personally, I would move. If you live in a complex there is a high chance that you might have neighbors that are scared of pit bulls and will complain. Tenants who complain enough can start trouble for you. Maybe you can rent an apartment or house from a private landlord, show them your dog and try to assure the landlord that you are a very responsible dog owner.
As far as interaction goes - yes I have seen aggressive pit bulls. I have seen pit bulls lunging from their huge chains trying to attack. Every single one of these pits was owned by an abusive and negligent owner. These dogs were tortured and trained to be super aggressive.
On the other hand, I have seen pit bulls owned by responsible caring people who were so well behaved around BABIES even I was amazed at how intuitive they are.
The difference between the aggressive mean pits and the sweet ones is the trainer. Some dogs have different drives that are dominant over others, ex. prey drive, pack drive, etc. Its hard to tell what really motivates your dog when it is still a puppy. You can't really tell until its about 1-2 years old.
My pits play with dogs of all shapes and sizes. They really like to wrestle, my Amstaff primarily likes to chase and be chased while the APBT likes to play tug of war and wrestle.
I notice that they (especially the Amstaff) are very aware of the size and strength of the dog that they are playing with and adjust their play accordingly.
The only doubt that I had with my two bullies is around the teacup chihuahuas and the really small dogs that start to yap or squeal in a high pitch. I think they are getting those dogs confused with squeaky toys, and they like to destroy squeaky toys. Obviously, I wouldn't let them play with the teeny tiny dogs.
One strong characteristic of bullies is the prey drive - I've seen pretty well trained pits go coo-coo over a squeaky toy and then get very protective over it. In that case, just avoid the situation altogether - don't let the dogs play with toys that appeal to their prey drive too much - switch to tug of war or maybe fetch.
When it comes to two bullies who have never met each other before - I would keep them both on a tight leash. You never know what the other dog could do and breaking up a serious bully fight could cause you to get really hurt. I would never leave two (or more) bullies home alone and free to roam. They could get into a fight over something and you might come home to find a dead dog. Bullies don't give up easily. They should be crated or otherwise separated from other dogs when nobody is there to supervise - just in case.
If you get your dog young enough, and you don't pair two females or two males together - you should be able to sucessfully manage two dogs under one roof with good training.
First you do need to find out if they include SBT as a "Pit Bull" type breed for sure, as you plan to do. They look a lot like ASTs only on the smaller side so they could easily be labeled a pit on looks and they could try to force you out because of it. There have been people evicted for owning AST because they are a "Pit Bull". Secondly if you seek a wellbred, standard APBT from a good breeder (30-50lbs) you should never have to worry about a dog maturing over 50lbs, even 40lbs go for dogs on the lower end. Buy an APB the size you want. I'm not saying its impossible to get a dog over 40lbs out of smaller parents but you usually know what you're getting from a good breeder, bloodline and parents so you wouldnt be buying a dog from a byb bred for size. But if it says No Pits I guess you're out of luck, unless you get an APBT and say its a SBT if they except that, unless of course it has to be registered and papers to proves it a SBT and not an APBT. I think she's been dog aggressive to adult females for a long time, she was given at 2.5 years of age. She seems like she will be a great little pull dog. She has an extremely high prey drive, she killed my cat Friday night, any type of squeky toy makes her a maniac she chewed them all up to bits now she just gets tennis balls, her and my other female got into a fight on tuesday, it seems like she's really a handful...lol But I think she will fit in with more training, she was an inside dog for a year, but then a chain dog so she lost some training I guess, its much harder to take a dog and try to resituate to an inside dog, they have to relearn somethings. Within a week she already new where she was allowed and not allowed, to go in her crate with much fighting and learning on command, and not to run out the door. But the front door was very hard, she was still learning bounderies and the cat was on the porch she saw it and busted the door open. When the fight happened, she sleeps in a crate downstairs and my other female (who was in heat, both had just been in heat) was also sleeping in a crate downstairs, a couple nites before the fight I had been having her sleep upstairs on her bed. Woke up went to take her pee and then went down the stairs got to the kitchen and Lacey came running out of the living room, they met and she had her ears back I knew that they were probably going to fight and I grabbed my other female really fast but she already grabbed Lacey's face. Its a good thing I had my other female upstairs overnite or who knows what would have happened. That was a very hard fight to seperate. Its a pain owning multiple bullies sometimes, they generally seem to have such a hard time with eachother then they do other breeds of dogs though and same sex isn't always a good idea. Prey drive varies from dog to dog, some have really high and others have barely any. I think training helps a lot, you also need a strong bond with your dog, socialization always helps but their is no way to socialize hardwired instincts out because you can have a dog that is very nice for many years and one day fight with another dog you just can't expect any dog to get along with every dog ever, so you need to be prepared for a fight, learn how to break one up and what to do. The best thing is preventing the fight (like I tried to do) because some become worse if they did fight they might want to try it again. Most are also pretty controllable anyway, she's just a little hellfire dog, she's been like this since she was young and cats always taunted her. I remeber once when she was about 18 months old one was teasing her very badly and she almost got it. These were all wild cats that she was around but they sure did like teasing the dogs that would actually come after them, weird, the dogs who didn't bother them they stopped messing around with. This only further re-enforces their will to go after other animals. Its like the cats were playing chicken or something. If you want real life experience I have six APBTs, all my dogs have been in at least 1 fight except for my pup. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/true_pits/Venom/Venomheadsno.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/true_pits/Venom/venom2ndplacenats9-04.jpg My older, red male 45lbs, is dog aggressive with other males, he usually won't start anything but if the dog stares him down or barks he will whine and want to fight. He also is VERY jealous, he can get along with other dogs great but if he thinks that they are going to be getting my attention then he gets very upset and its trouble. He also has rivarly going with other dogs, there have only been two he does this with because they like to start it with him, both females one I don't own anymore and now the guy who has her, she does the same thing at his place. Gets his male to start barking and jealous. I find that most males get along with nearly any female but females don't just hate other females they will also try to dominate males (most males will let them, usually the male is on the lower end and the female above them) or argue with them. He will be just fine but if my red nose female barks at him he will start in barking back. If I pet one the other is always going to get upset. He started developing signs of dog aggression when he was around 6 months old to other strange males, he would act dominant towards them. At around a year or so is when he actually got worse and he attacked my female Boxer and tried to kill her. Then when he got older he was fine with her, at about 2 years old he calmed down a lot. He can play with other dogs. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/true_pits/Inferno/Infernositty.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/true_pits/Inferno/Infernoface.jpg My other red nose male, 40lbs just now turned 2 (today is his birthday 27th), he was dog aggressive from about 2-3 months and I don't mean puppy play, him and his half brother got into a full blown I want to kill you fight and they were locked in deadly battle. I had the pupppies (4) in a pen and it was a nice peaceful summer day, until that incident. I put them in seperate pens they just dug out into eachothers crazies and went at it again. Then they hated the site of eachother but he always played with his female red nose half sister after that and with my other adult females. Now he is pretty calm with other dogs, unless the same thing jealousy. I set up a chain for him and another female who's an older pup and they were just fine by eachother. Well I was playing with a rope toy with her and he started whining and grimicing the whole time. Then I had to tell him to stop of course and calm him and down and he tried to ignore me at first but I had to keep my firm, serious tone with him and get his attention which is very hard, him and his half sister seem very intently focused once they start and not easily prosuaded otherwise. When I play with him the older pup, she barks, buts she's not really aggressive or jealous about it she's just trying to get my attation. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/true_pits/Lacey/Laceyhuh.jpg Lacey, the seal female I posted about earlier well she's pretty much dog aggressive when challenged and very prey driven. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/true_pits/Santana/Santanablackfog.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/true_pits/Santana/Santana1stJCKS10-04.jpg My brindle female, 31lbs is about the same age, she's the one that got into a fight with Lacey. She was a very dominant pup out of the litter and as she grew she was still very dominant towards her littermates when she was about 4 months I had to stop letting her play with her sister because her sister was more of an omega while she was an alpha and she would grab and shake her sister while she yelped and thats not good for either of them. It got my dog thinking she's top dog and should go around challenging other dogs. She is a very vocal dogs, in all activities, whatever it is she has to talk about it. So its only natural that she is going to bark and yell at other dogs, she's mostly full of hot air and when allowed to actually be near the other dog she just wants to play. I have some great video of her running like a maniac around her mother sounding extremely vicious but they are just playing. She even jumps over her moms back, or stands on it, when directed to. I guess if someone saw her throwing a fit (which she rarely does because I trained it out of her) they might think she's aggressive but she's just telling the dog come play. Her and my older male were having a blast a couple weeks ago, he was just rolling around everywhere like a goof, of course it was on her terms and she had to be the boss but they played just fine. The only time she's ever serious about a fight is between my other two adult females (she's fine with the older pup who's 8 months) she's also good with other peoples adult females, getting along just fine and playing with adult males all the time. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/true_pits/Val/Val123.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/true_pits/Val/Valstormi.jpg My red nose female, I wouldn't trust with any small animals either. She has a very high prey and working drive like Lacey. She's caught birds before and also killed one of my cats (I don't have anymore and I guess I don't plan to get anymore, wouldn't be fair to them, they are always getting killed somehow it seems) same deal the cats teased her, they were even as crazy as to walk ON TOP OF HER PEN, all the while she is jumping trying to get them it only would have taken one slip for them to fall. I also caught one climbing the tree branches and her tarp crazy. She has a pen and the cat decided that walking around the pen all the time wasn't enough so I'm guessing he thought it was a good idea to stick his head in the chainlink fence and she bit it, so that was that. But she will chase squirrels and birds. She was fine with most dogs until she got into with my brindle female, now they constantly want eachother. I have pics of them sitting in perfect harmony, but now they hate eachother, they only want to start something when it involves me. I don't really trust her with any other dogs, but she's not a raving maniac I walk her with other dogs, they sniff eachother, touch and smell eachother I'm not stupid enough to think I should let her play with those other dogs though. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/true_pits/Val/Muse/Musestandproud.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/true_pits/Val/Muse/Musestandsupblk.jpg My 8 month old pup, about 35lbs now, red brindle but its hard to tell in the pics has pretty much not shown any aggression so far to anything. Don't know if this will change, she is very hyper though. She's real active, is good with my other dogs, cats or whatever. So what I find is training/socialization are very important, you should watch for signs of aggression around maturing ages, know how to seperate a dog fight, and with just having one dog you shouldn't have much problems. Because I also find that my dogs tend to have the most problems with eachother and not dogs outside the home, even other bulldogs as they play with them or get along with them (i.e. don't try to fight and act aggressive when they see them). So its jealousy and pack ranking and the fact that they have to tolerate eachother so much. I also saw it mentioned that SBT are more aggressive then AST but I just don't see that as being true. AST can be pretty dang dog aggressive just as well with the SBT. I myself have always wanted a SBT, maybe sometime down the road, way down I'll get one, might try some UKC shows/events then.