There are a few people that show their dogs. Offhand I would suggest talking to ln, Icyhound, ltlgto, and Minniyar. I'm sure there are others around on the board, but they are long term members who always have excellent answers if you have any specific questions.
I disagree I don't think you need to show your dogs to be a breeder but I do think you need to be educated in what the breed standerd is and be able to tell the difference between a show quality and a pet quality pup.
Whe you say "get your pups" are you buying show quality pups or are you breeding? I am confused....
If you are buying how will you be able to tell if you are getting a show quality or pet quality pup??
Pits - if you don't show your dog then how do you know it is standard ? Standard is alot more then just physical appearance. I don't really agree with the whole beauty contest showing but I do believe in making sure a dog has the temperament of its breed. I am a big believer in form following function. Even if you do not show a dog in the beauty contest it should be shown in some sport to evaluate proper breed temperament. I have a pyrenees. I do not have livestock for him to guard, he is solely a companion. But if I did have livestock, I would research a breeder who had working dogs. I wouldn't buy from just anyone who had a litter of puppies who were bred from "standard" parents. The breeder would have to prove that the parents were of correct working temperament to provide me with a pup that will do the job I am buying it for. Anything else to me is just breeding for pet quality and there are enough pet quality puppies in every litter born to working or show parents.
I am well aware of what temperment these dogs should have and the breed standerd. Not every breeder Chooses to show their dogs. I breed for temperment as well. Not just appearences. And not every pup comes out perfect either. We have had a couple here and there that were not up to snuff and they were spayed and neuterd. All of our pups that were pet quality were ALWAYS altered.
I am trying to undertsand you, but each time you post I am more confused. What does temperament and standard mean to you ? I am not speaking of breeding only nice dogs vs. mean ones. I am speaking about breeding the correct temperament dogs. Let's say you breed livestock guardians, what do you base correct temperament on ? proven guardian ability or a nice mom and dad ? If you breed a herding breed, are they actively herding in your environment so you know they have the correct herding breed temperament ? I read somehwere where you said you bred german shepherds and dobermans ? What did you breed for ? What types of people bought your dogs ? Pet homes or working homes ? If they were working homes and you didn't show your dogs, then how did you decide that the temperaments of the dogs you bred were worthy of being bred ? I am really trying to undertsand your comment about you don't have to show to be a breeder. To me, that is correct. You dont have to show your dog to breed it. You can breed any two dogs together but it doesn't make it okay. Its the motivation behind the breeding that distinguishes you.
Just because the parents are field champions does not mean that the puppies will have the smarts to be field champions. You try to purchase a good pedigree, do the right things and hopefully you will get what you wanted.
Aint that the truth I have seen dogs with astonishing pedegrees nothing but titles from the word go and those same dogs can together produce some pups that are about as dumb as a load of gravel so to speak. I have seen dogs with impecable temperments produce a few mean natured little snits too. LOL can you say Spayed and neuterd? LOL
Yes freshwaterlabs that is correct. That is why I say there are pet quality pups born to show or working parents all the time. Enough to satisfy pet homes. But if I am to look for a dog for a specific purpose, then I will look for proven parents and with the breeders help, pick the puppy that has shown promise in that area.
All my parent dogs had exceptional backrounds. Some of them were shown by my father and grandfather but not by me. I never showed my dogs. I personally am against the way some of these dogs live that are show dogs. NOW don't go biting my head off I said some. There is no doubt in my mind that both the dobes I have right now would have had a long list of accomplishments had they been shown but the fact is I chose not to. And just because I chose not to does not mean they are pet quality dogs. Though they are in fact my beloved pets. I cannot believe anyone would make such and extremly big deal out of the fact I chose not to show them? I mean if it is that important that they are seen come on down! LOL As many times as we watch these dog shows and know that ONE persons opinion is what decides who the best is it is pretty pathetic if you ask me. It is one persons opinion. We always bred to standerd in both temperment and in appearences. I spent a long time learning things the right way and I am confident that I know what I am doing. Should I ever decide to breed again I will do things the same way I always have.
Pits I am not trying to bite your head off or condemn you for not showing your dogs. I am just trying to understand what makes you decide to breed a specific breed ? Like I had stated above, having a pretty dog who wins ribbons in what I deem to be a beauty contest is not something I am interested in. I am more interested in the function of a particular breed. I do not know what dobermans were originally created for. But say you wanted to do a particular activity like water rescue. The breed of choice would be a Newfoundland. Now say you bred Newfoundlands and someone came to you looking for a water rescue dog. What would you tell them ? If you don't train your breeding stock for water rescue how would you know if they could produce a puppy that would be suitable for water rescue ? If someone came to you looking for a conformation show prospect , how would you know your breeding stock could provide them what they are looking for if you never showed the parents ? I really think you have a lot of experience and I do enjoy reading most of what you write, but I am trying to get this idea of you being a backyard breeder out of my head. So I am trying very hard to understand what your motivation is behind breeding dogs ? Because so far it just sounds like you are breeding to provide more pets to people.
"Now say you bred Newfoundlands and someone came to you looking for a water rescue dog. What would you tell them ? If you don't train your breeding stock for water rescue how would you know if they could produce a puppy that would be suitable for water rescue ?"
Ok lets go with this breed for a minute. Lets say you have a pair and they are trained for water rescue. Does that mean that their pups will be just as good? And how would you know which pups would be good and which would not? You wouldn't until they are older. They could be a perfect specimin and out right bite when it comes to fulfilling their true purpose. Then lets say you have a pup that excells at its breeds purpose but is not a perfect specimin? Then what you simply do not breed either of these dogs because they excell in one area and fail in another? And how can you really know which pups will excell in what area or if any area? You can't know that just by the parents.
Both my dogs are personal protection trained and both meet the breed standerd. They are good working dogs and good breed specimins and that is why I chose to breed them because they excelled at both. LOL Though I still tease that Rusty is Dumb as a post! Then again he was not the only stud used with my female. Rusty sired only one litter. The other sire was named General and He also met the same criteria. Of the three litters that Addie had I remember one pup in particular from her first litter that showed signs of agression at very early age. She was standoffish around people and Extremly food agressive had to be fed seperate from the other pups and everything and was showing her teeth at me at just 7 weeks old. She was spayed. She went to a single woman in Ky. Where she excells at personal protection training and agilities. Go figure huh? We never just arbitrarily bred dogs that did not met certain criteria. And with all the posts I have made about my feelings towords BYB's and millers you would think you would know by now that that was not what I was about.
In my opinion breed standards don't matter. Physical appearence doesn't matter. I don't care about showing a dog, or if it makes show quality. All I care about is personality, and how loving and affectionate your dogs are.
Don't get me wrong...I don't mind if you show, and I even like to watch dog shows. I'm not going to join the fight here or anything, just stating my opinion. =)
Yea shadow, who cares if the dog is healthy or has a healthy body structure? All that matters is personality! *rolls eyes* but seriously, Body structure is very important to a dogs health. That is why there is standards. It's not just a guide to beauty.
Oh and to get back on topic, I show minpins and dobies, and will soon be getting out of minpin showing and breeding and into Malinois. I am one of the stuck up (lol)purebred dog snobs that thinks before you breed two dogs they should prove they are breed worthy in the showring, and not just breed them because you think they are good enough. anyone can look at a dog and say it looks conformationally right to them and breed it. Thats not really improving the breed, its just making more pets, which can be found in any shelter. Most showdogs are pampered and treated just as well as peoples pet dogs, and in some cases better. after all in the end they are still your pet. Showing is a test of temperment and structure. it isn't really just a beauty contest.
I have shown some, however time is limited for showing with having a family and a job. We bought an outstanding long-haired female Saint Bernard puppy to show this year. She will be showing this Spring, and we cannot wait to see how she does! Showing is a lot of work; however it can be a lot of fun too.