Is there any way to keep this breed as a productive pet and valuable member of society without physically pushing it to the very limits every single day?
I've known quite a few pit bulls, and they all were sweet. I'm wondering if the only way to keep them that way is to exercise them beyond the normal dog exercises - making them pull heavy chains, etc. After all, aren't we all (as lovers of the breed) trying to discourage people from thinking that they are so different from other dogs?
I thought that the advocates of the breed were trying to emphasize their universal "good dog" traits, and minimalize the traits that mark them as high-maintenance dogs that can't really be controlled by an average person.
Please, owners of this fine beautiful friendly breed, tell me otherwise!
***Edited By: soneedai on 6/18/2006 2:23:43 AM*** Reason: *sp
I take it you are not a Pit Bull owner.... This breed is a productive member of society if owned by the correct owner. Truth is that Pit Bulls are not naturally human agressive but they are dog agressive and if anyone wants to argue that then you should definately not own this breed. A socialized and well exercised Pit is the best dog around. If you own a Pit Bull and do not accept and want to come to terms with the agression this breed can carry if not properly cared for then its not the breed for you. Like all breeds they are for a certain type of person. All Pit Bulls are different too. Some do great with just a walk a day but most that I have known and work with are not satisfied with one walk or normal backyard play. They become destructive and will turn normal dog play into intense play. If you do not drain there energy like all dogs they get bored. A very strong dog with more energy then most will need more exercise then others. If I just take my dog to an open field and let them run for a couple of hours then when we get home they are up and ready to go in about 3 hours. If I let them pull wights or wear a weight harness it drains more of there energy and they are a more happy and mellow dog. Why do you think it is so bad to exercise a dog that is a high drive breed? How do you think athletes are able to compete? They cant just go do a 30 min kick boxing class for 3 days out of the week and be satisfied. They need more intense training. This breed is an athletic breed and known as the gladiator of all dogs. It has been bred in them to be high drive and intense and to go the extra mile. You would not take a herding dog from a strong herding bloodline and expect it to live in the backyard and not get bored would you? These dogs crave a challenge and are happiest when it is given to them. I hope to educate as much as I can but you can not deny the incredible strenght and ability this breed has. It is what I love most about this breed.
Bottom line is if you do not have the time or devotion to own the breed then do not get one because its only screwing it up for people who do it correct. I fight BSL to be albe to keep MY dogs and not for every dumba@! joe blow to own one. That is what is causing such a bad name for them. The owners of this breed should be held accountable for there dogs actions and not the breed. My dogs are super sweet members of society and only because I go to great measures to make sure of it.
***Edited By: utopia on 6/18/2006 3:12:50 AM*** Reason: vv
The first post might as well have been written by me but after having read your post Utopia I understand the pitbull a little better; I was under the impression that owners of pitbulls were forcing their dog to pull weights for the sole purpose of creating a ball of muscle, I would never have thought that they were so energy driven; I would love to hear from other pitbull owners. Surely exercise without weight pulling is enough, how about a good game of fetch? surely that will use up any pent up energy?
I don't see the APBT as high energy as that. I've owned 5 in the last 20 years. 4 females and one male. All had drive to walk and play ,but where happy just to be couch potatos.Every day Piper and Tigger play with one another ,do zoomies around the yard ,wrestle , and if I get the chance a good game of fetch. That's all they need, that's all any of my dogs ever needed.Ziggy was a great apartment dog .I can tell you if my dogs don't get out side and run and play , then inside they will become pains in the a##.Funny part is most of the time my dogs prefer to be inside just hanging out .No amount of excercise I can give Tigger will help to minimize Tigs da or intense prey drive.She's just plain hard wired like that.Piper is just a clown.Now I have a intrense prey driven dog with severe da , and a prancing clown. I love them both.
I have owned and rescued more than 50 pits and 1 out of 10 are great couch potatoes that really do not need much energy release. I have one that is a great couch potato now and I have 3 that if you do not drain there energy then they will start to fight with each other. Not all pits are the same but more times than not it taks a lot of exercise to keep them happy.
My 2 pits are content to romp our 1 1/2 fenced in acres for 3 to 4 hours early in the morning, chasing rabbits when it's cool and a few hours late in the evening. The time in between, they're flat on their backs on their beds or on mine. They are definately more "house" dog than "ball & chain" game dogs.
well running for 3-4 hours in the am and in the pm on that big of an area is great and I am sure they enjoy it too. My dogs once they have been able to drain there energy are great couch potatoes also. Do you think if you had a normal back yard they would be as relaxed?
I think there is a major problem with generalization with this breed. Yes environmental factors do play a role in temperament and energy/game release activities do calm a game dog down. But these factors are only a small slice of the animals personality. I have breed dogs for years and have found that genetics are the major factor in any breed. Thats why we have so many types dogs. The genetic make up in the k-9 has been manipulated for a millennium resulting in hundreds of dog breeds each with a specific job and temperament dictated directly by its DNA. To deny that PITBULLS can be dangerous is silly and to say that a attentive and responsible owner will cure the breed of its notorious reputation is also naive. There is a genetic factor that people are ignoring and that is blood line. There are bloodline that are very man aggressive (smitty/rigland) and line that are not so man aggressive (clive /mostly am-staff) very very dog aggressive. These blood line are focused on this trait and are very minimally trained to behave this way they have been bred with lots and lots of game. I have breed AB's and studied a lot of literature on the "gladiator" dogs and and found that they were made for one purpose and still are bred for that purpose. Pitbulls are still bred for fighting, and if not for fighting bred by ghetto thugs in their backyards for their man aggressive/guard dog man-stopping abilities and to stroke a thugs egos. A wienerdog likes to dig because of it badgering day. Greyhounds like to run because of it game/race bloodline. Minpins love to chase and catch mice because of its ratting background. etc..... There are still traits floating around in this otherwise useless breeds that are purely shows that still come out in there personalities even though they are not breed for that purpose anymore. There are more aggressive pits because the breeder has not diluted the gameness of bloodline and there are some that have been bred as pets and diluted that gene. The game is still there but is more recessive. You just need to be aware of which you have. I know I no long will keep pits now that I have kids. Thats just my own choice. Piece of mind if you will. I now have American bulls they are great guard dogs but must more even tempered. But even with AB's you need to be sure you have the right blood line. Fortunately there game was focused more on wild boar and livestock than human. There is a school of thought that says that a akc registered amstaff/pitbull is a better pet because it is in the show ring and bred for the show and not the pit is invalid because I know people that have akc am-staffs that are still pit fought. My point is that you can train a dog to behave and yes there are couch potato pits but it will always be a pitbull. You can take to dog out of the game but you can't fully take the game out of the dog.
Also yes lots of people breed and weight train pits to be muscular and aggressive. It is a know fact that weight training and endurance training are the two major exercises used by pit fighters.
***Edited By: foxfurlover on 6/18/2006 1:08:14 PM*** Reason: spelling
Foxfurlover I agree with you to some extent. I do believe that the bloodline plays a big role in it but it is also the individual dog just like any other breed. I have a Pit Bull that is 50%Razors Edge and 50% Larums neither are a gamedog bloodline. She is a very intense dog but loves to work and pull. If she is kept busy then she is a dream and gets along with everyone. If she has built up energy forget letting her out around anything that moves and by that I mean animals not humans.I have a female that is from show and game background and she is a house dog but requires some exercise and I can controll with a look. She is highly intelligent and does not need constant exercise. I have a male who is straight up game dog. His parents and grandparents were both fighters. He requires no exercise and is so content to be laying on the bed. He will work the weights if you want him to but prefers to sleep in bed with you. He is naturally a super cut and big dog. I own 100% Edge dogs and Greyline dogs. There is absolutely no consistancy in the behavior of them or what they produce. Some are big babies and some are more driven. I have a Razor Edge female who is lazy as he11 but will copy what the other dogs are doing if they are in a off mood her sister is super active and high drive. It all depends on the dog but I will tell you one thing--- I have never met a human agressive Pit Bull or Bully breed except when trained to be. Dog agression is a different thing but can be controlled. I have had my son around Pit Bulls since the day he was born and have never had any suspicion to be apprehensive. Now my toy breeds on the other hand have bit him before. I believe the Pit Bull or American Bully (if you are speaking of the new fad bloodlines that has kind of diluted the true Pit Bull out) is indeed one of the safer breeds around kids. I love the looks of the new Bully style pit but I love the attitude of the old school pits. I own both and adore both. There is no scientific evidence stating that dog agression is inherited. There are no studies to prove it just theories. I do believe that high drive and gameness (that is not agression and that is commonly mis understood) is much stronger in some bloodlines than others but also it greatly depends on the dog. If you do not have a Pit Bull that is willing to do what you ask of it then its not indeed a true pit bull. They are the most game dog around and that means ready for a challenge. It is a shame that ignorant people use that great quality for bad and not good. Oh and Pit Bulls were not origonally bred for dog fighting. They used them to hunt and then when they reached Spain it became a sport to dog fight them. So they were bred to be fearless and go after anything from a rat to a bear what ever task the owners wanted it to do. Hunters wanted one dog to take and not have to worry about several to feed so they created the all time gladiator to handle any prey they wanted. It is a intresting breed and if you study it enough you will find out how human friendly they were bred to be but I can not say they are animal friendly by nature.
PLEASE DO NOT SAY THAT THEY WERE BRED TO BE HUMAN AGRESSIVE!! THAT IS THE FURTHEST FROM THE TRUTH. YOU REALLY NEED TO STUDY THE BREED AND SEE THE TRUE HISTORY BEHIND THE BREED.
***Edited By: utopia on 6/18/2006 4:21:46 PM*** Reason: DD
utopia I would have to say that I agree with what you say. Most of it at least. There are different theories on how we go the pitbull (you and I would probably disagree) and I think you are well informed on the pitbull perspective of the bulldog bloodline. I could debate it but what I think we would agree on is not how the pit and ab came to existence but what they are now. A true pit is from celtic irish blood and is truly a terrier. An american bulldog is a true molloser/mastiff. Entirely different animals.
Also i would like to say that I am well aware of many people that breed pit for man-stopper guard-work Responsibly. And there are many that foolishly reproduce bloodline that are inherently aggressive towards humans. You may say there isn't any proof that genetics plays a role in human aggression..... we'll there also isn't any proof that cigarettes cause cancer. We all can connect the dots. I love this breed but because of crappy breeder and owners we have STUPID BSL we have to deal with.
***Edited By: foxfurlover on 6/18/2006 7:48:20 PM*** Reason: spelling
Utopia I agree with everything you are saying except for one thing,I think the new fad bullies are bred horribly. It's fair to this breed the way they are being bred. Extreme low riders who can barely move. Me personally I love the rangy type dogs.I amagine temperments with the low riders ,they are great loving dogs.
First off utopia to say you have never met a pit that is man aggressive without being trained is silly. either you are in denial or haven't been around pits other than your own.
secondly red nose I not here say AB are better than pits because that would be silly also opinions aren't facts. What is a fact is that I and 90 percent of the AB community breed bulldogs very well and look down on the "low-slung" look you refer to. I think you are thinking of ol english bulldogges or one of those other fad types. If you do a little history research you will also find how long The AB has been been around and developing. I think the fact there is limited showing and thank god NO AKC involved in this breed go to show the true intent of this breed and its true breeders. 90 percent of the involved kennels who breed this dog really work on working this dog and perpetuating this breed. I can't say much for the backyarders but to say they are poorly bred as a whole is dead wrong.
I wasn't talking about the AB ,I love that breed also . Right now good breeders are breeding them and thank god the thugs so far as I can tell haven't gotten their hands on them. I was actually talking about the new fad APBT low riders.It's becoming the new look for these poor dogs and ruining them in health. Some byb are happily calling them monster freaks . It's really disturbing. Sorry for the misunderstanding.They are being bred with huge heads ,low rider bodies. This is not the true APBT.
That cool rednose. I also feel bad for these dogs I see the all over the net and wonder what kind of life expectancy they have. I love to see people with 30 40 50 lb. pits. Thats a true pit. These large pit are no more terrier than my friends bullmastiff.
* I only read the original post, due to time constraints.will read the replies later, so if I repeat anyone, my apologies in advance*
I don't do anything that good owners of other breeds do not do.. We go for daily walks, we play fetch and tug, nothing extraordinary, and DEFINITELY no lugging weighted chains around. I have no problem with sports like treadmill or weightpull as long as the dog enjoys it and isn't harmed, it just isn't something we do.
If it's rainy and we can't go for a walk I don't have a monster on my hands or anything, he isn't crazy hyper if he doesn't get his walk, nothing like that. I think all dogs need regular exercise to be happy and healthy though.
Rednosered, I know exactly the type of pitbull that you are talking about, these idiotic breeders often advertise in pet magazines and I wish I could give them a piece of my mind. These poor dogs are bred to be low to the ground and a very wide front and they look miserable, how could anyone do this to our fellow friend? I'm not sure of which canine organization they belong to but surely any ethical organization should not permit this kind of breeding to take place.
"First off utopia to say you have never met a pit that is man aggressive without being trained is silly. either you are in denial or haven't been around pits other than your own. "--- foxfurlover
I beg to differ with you and do not appreciate being called a liar. I have worked at vet clinics and several shelters that are all heavily populated with pit bulls. I have never met a Pit that I could not win his heart over and I am truely sorry if you do not believe me but with the amount of Pits I have worked with and have rescued I think you would see how wrong you are. I have devoted my last 8 years to this breed and for you to say that I must have only worked with my dogs is a slap in the face. I have done nothing but be an advocate for this breed and help whenever I can. Maybe I have been lucky but I will not sit here and say I have met a human agressive pit when the truth is I have not!!! I worked at a shelter where we put at least 10 Pit Bulls down a day and we used euthasol. I held every last one of the pits in my arms un muzzled and never once got growled at when ending there suffering. I quit a great paying job for that simple fact. I could not handle it anymore. So please do not accuse where you know nothing about. I take this breed very seriously and hate that fact that there are so many mis informed people out there. The truth of the matter is no one knows the exact orgin or make up of a Pit Bull. The dogs were mutts to begin with and were mainly crossed with Bulldog and terriers. There are different researches everywhere on where the American Pit Bull Terrier came from and none say the same thing. So I will never get into a big debate on the actual truth of the early days of the Pit because they have change so much over the years anyway. Know one knows for sure and only speculates. It seems like each researcher has there own theory. I take what each has in common and keep that in mind.
rednosered I agree with how they are taking away from the true looks and actions of the Pit Bull. I do have to say that the pit has changed so much over the years to what people like. This era they like the bully stlye and are breeding in the olde english bulldogge and mastiff look to them. I will admit I like them but I do not think they should be considered Pit Bulls. I love the true Pit Bull and I love the new looks of the bully over done dogs.
Ruby 05 I do not see how it is cruel to the breed when no one thinks and English Bulldog is cruel... I love all bully breeds from Englis Bulldog to Pit Bulls and think they are all great dogs. They are all completely different and I do wish that they would come up with a new name for the new era bully or so called Pit Bull. They have no gameness to them at all and have to be treated like a Bulldog and not a Pit Bull. I do own both and love both breeds alot.
I will be the first one to say that pits are wonderful dog, or at least my brother's was... but he was responsible..he acknowledged the fact that Little Ann was aggressive..it was in HER nature. He kept her indoors, and everyone knew not to come into the house unannounced, with the exception of family. When I came to the door, I would talk through the door to make sure that she knew it was me. No children that were not raised with her were allowed to be near her unless my brother had her on a leash. He recognized that if she thought that other kids were hurting his kids she could attack. She did not require alot of exercise, but got plenty every weekend at the deer lease where she was given free roam. I think instead of breed.. size and strength is the important issue. If a dog is large and strong enough to seriously injure someone, it should be controlled completely. ANY dog will attack if it feels that s/he or someone s/he loves is in danger...regardless of breed.
I have one thing to say, I know Utopia personally and have worked with her in the vet clinics....she is whole heartedly devoted to this breed!! She has more experience than I when it comes to the pit bulls, as I am new to owning this breed.
However, my pits are couch potatoes if you let them be, with no problem. But we do take them on regular walks in the evening. My work schedule requires me to be there at 630am,,,so unfortumately, morning walks do not work (my fault b/c I am too lazy to get up that early in the am lol)..but the evening walks we do.
I believe it is all in the way the dog is raised. I am not by any means saying my dogs are perfect, God knows their not. They have their moments, we have had 2 fights in the last 3 weeks, the 2nd one being tonight. So please, I am not a Saint, we (I) tried to introduce my male blue brindle with my female red nose tonight, and it was a no go (they had been together before with no problems), I dont know what went wrong, but something pi$$ed off the female and that was all she wrote...my hubby and I broke them up, he is now in the house with menos on his wounds, which luckinly didnt require a vet visit, just some TLC, he will be fine.
As far as the temperment goes, well, you never know what you're going to get, but I can say that ALL of my dogs, from the Rott to the Pitrs are GREAT with my kids! I do not even worry when they are around them, I feel safe. I don watch them of course, I'm not an idiot.
Any ways,,,I am probably off topic, ,,,I forget,,but my dogs are couch potatoes,,,,,,I think that was the main topic right???????????? LOL