I have been contacted by an individual who wanted to ask a couple of questions about a specific breeder. Since it can't be posted on the forum, she PMd me. She gave me the site and a few things jumped out at me.

I'm not talking about the multitude of pups bred, nor the fact that they were selling mixed breeds for a high amount. Unfortunately, there had been a substantial, non-refundable deposit already paid, so all that could be done was to either forfeit the money paid as deposit (which is the total amount I charged for one of my Pyr pups) or hope and pray that she ended up with a healthy puppy. She didn't. Thankfully, the pup was taken to her vet within 72 hours.

I will leave it to her to share the details or not, as she choses, but think that the newbies to the site as well as the multitude of visitors through this site should have a couple of "RUN THE OTHER WAY" pointers, without dragging in the issues of mixed vs purebred or one registry over another. As with the "my dog is expecting, now what do I do"...it's far more important to deal with the issue at hand, then debate the rest of it. Who knows? Perhaps we might even help a few people avoid heartbreak, not to mention countless dollars spent on vet bills which sometimes still result in a dead pup. A bonus would be hitting the millers where it hurts, in their pocketbook.

SOOOOOOOO...if you'd like to share serious warning signs of a puppy miller, leaving out mixed vs purebred (we know there re millers out there breeding purebred pups as well) or the money spent on mixed/designer breeds, I'd be most appreciative.

If people would get in the habit of looking at the guarantee BEFORE scrolling through the photos of those sweet puppy faces, I think many would be saved heartache.

ALWAYS READ THE GUARANTEE FIRST!
In looking at this particular breeder's site the following red flags went up for me:

1. No refunds. EVER. For any reason.
2. No guarantee for pups with any form of diabetic problems.
3. No guarantee for Coccidia.
4. No guarantee for Parvo.
5. Have Nutrical on hand before the puppy arrives (WTH?)
6. Repeated mentions of what happens in the event of a pups death.

Another thing is the amount of the non-refundable "deposit", which was well (as in 2 - 3 times the amount) over a reasonable fee to hold a pup.

Any breeder who is worth their salt never releases a puppy before it is an average of 10 weeks of age. Some at 8 weeks, others, like myself with our 1 litter at 12 weeks. Any breeder worth their salt has had several vet checks for that pup by then, NOT just the vet visit for the health certificate. Yes, things happen that might not have been caught by the breeder or the vet. Things that don't show up for months or perhaps years. But to EXPECT the death of pups as routine??? Again, WTH?

Again, this thread is for general warnings, not bashing of any breeder/kennel or type of pups in question.

***Edited By: pyrmom on 6/24/2008 6:58:14 AM***
Reason: *

5. Have Nutrical on hand before the puppy arrives (WTH?)

If it's a tiny tiny toy breed.. that's not uncommon a request.

It's really important when you're looking at a health guarantee that it doesn't exclude breed specific problems. I recently ran across a Sheltie breeder who excluded Sheltie Eye Syndrome (similar to Collie Eye Anomaly) - obviously a breed specific issue in Shelties. Make sure you find out what health issues are common for that breed (or with mixes - breeds, because mixed breed puppies can potentially have health issues from either side of the family tree).

At the same time - stay away from guarantees that only cover 1-2 health problems. (Just hips for example - almost no breed only has 1 health concern)

A health guarantee should be a show of a breeder's confidence in the health of their dogs. EVERY breeder will have an occasional puppy with a health issue if they breed long enough. If they purposely leave out health issues in their guarantee it usually means they have had multiple puppies with that problem.

I also personally want to know what level of care a breeder gives to their own dogs. If they can't maintain the same standards you plan to maintain with your new puppy I wouldn't get a puppy from them - that means good food (if you plan to feed Innova - don't buy a puppy from a breeder who feeds Purina Dog Chow), good vet care, good grooming (if your breeder can't brush their dogs on a weekly basis, but you plan to...), good training (if they can't train their dogs, how do you know the puppy you get will be easily trainable), good socialization (if the breeder's dogs never leave the kennel, how do you know they make a good pet)... Don't be afraid to ask lots of questions. Keep in mind temperament is very inherited - AND your breeder is influencing your puppies early weeks. If you can't see yourself being friends with your breeder, run away.

Don't settle for really bad pictures of the parents or the puppy. Pictures used for advertising are a display of confidence in a breeder's program. If the dogs are poorly groomed, pictures blurry, from a distance... usually a good sign that the breeder has poor specimens of the breed. It is NOT hard to get nice pictures of a dog. If the best effort a breeder can give you is a shot they took, standing up, while the mother of the puppies is running through the yard, barely brushed... probably not a good indication of their standards in any area of their program. You don't need a professional photographer to get clear pictures of a nicely groomed dog - if the dog is well trained with good temperament this gets easier. If the breeder can't do a basic groom on their own dog... again, be weary of their standards. Good pictures speak louder than anything else. Don't accept excuses. It's NOT rocket science.

I've noticed a lot of "breeders" only offer a guarantee for "life threatening" genetic problems. I find that suspicious. The term "life threatening" can be subjective. If a dog has sever hip displasia, an owner and vet might conclude that euthanasia is the best option. Would HD be "life threatening" in that case? Either way there are many genetic problems that may not be "life threatening" but the sure are expensive to treat.

1. No refunds. EVER. For any reason.

Yeah, big no no...

2. No guarantee for pups with any form of diabetic problems.

I guess I've never run into this one... (have bred dachshunds for 7 years)

3. No guarantee for Coccidia.

I do not guarantee against coccidia. Simply for the reason that it can be brought on my stress, but not detectable in the vet visit. It's a simple 7 day treatment of albon...

4. No guarantee for Parvo.

I do guarantee against parvo within 14 days of leaving my house. Since parvo has a 14 incubation period... if the puppy were to get it within 14 days then I will know that it came from my place and, of course, take full responsibility. I always... ALWAYS... tell my customers to NOT let their puppy out of the car or on "foreign soil" (other than their back yard) until they are full vaccinated at 15 weeks

5. Have Nutrical on hand before the puppy arrives (WTH?)

Maybe to help with stress? This actually makes sense to me...

6. Repeated mentions of what happens in the event of a pups death.

I understand why you would question why the breeder put this in the contract. However, many breeders are simply trying to protect themselves and have gone so far as to have a lawyer type up the contract.