It seems the thread where I asked you this some days ago mysteriously died.
I never bred for "betterment of the breed standard". I bred for good pets that were ALWAYS fixed when they left my house....... I also didn'y charge a fortune for my pups. But I NEVER would purposely breed a dog with elbow, knee or any other sort of medical problem, no matter how minor or what grade it is considered.
So how many of the dogs you bred were CERF and OFA Patellas?
Houndz, yet I am subject to vilification because I am going to elect to breed an excellent in every way bitch who has 1 elbow that was prelim'd grade 1. (Who is also CERF, OFA Cardiac, hip prelim'd good, and well on the way to her second CH title)
Red, you are the most knowledgeable, well-read, highly educated person in this forum and I think some people are intimidated by you. Would you please explain to all of us what an elbow that is Grade 1 DJD mean. I think some people are talking without really knowing what this means.
Houndz, Please do not judge me as you know nothing about me. Money is not an issue with me at all. No, my dogs were not officially tested for anything. It had nothing to do with money. I just chose not to do it. Something I will change if I ever continue to breed dogs again. Red, I should have done the testing, I DO know that. And if I ever decide to breed again, I will be having it done. HOWEVER, what I have a problem with is KNOWING that there is a problem and breeding it anyway. As per your own way, shouldn't a dog pass 100% to be bred? Why choose a dog that is not "perfect" to breed? I am sure your dog is GREAT! And I am sure she has alot to contribute, but she also has a flaw, and because of that ONE MINOR flaw, I do not think you should breed her.
I have learned from alot of my mistakes when it comes to breeding. There IS a reason that I quit doing it.
Scary, Where do you think people are intimidated? I think that Red is pretty smart, Most highly respected? I do not think that you can say that. You cannot really label a person like that as you do not know everyone on the forum.
***Edited By: KatzPomDogz on 12/2/2005 11:35:43 AM*** Reason: mnmnmnmn
It is one thing to be uneducated about certain things, it is another to have an abundance of knowledge and truely know better. Seems as though Katz has learned alot of things she didn't know about breeding and other aspects from this site and other sources of information, just like I have and countless other as well.
It is remarkable of you to answer this thread with such class and to have been so honest Katz.
***Edited By: pope1982 on 12/2/2005 11:39:33 AM*** Reason: ...
Does Scary know Red outside the forum perhaps? Red does seem to know a lot about dogs. I will not say otherwise, because I respect people. I also think that in Red's mind s/he is doing what is best for their breeding program. I UNDERSTAND, I RESPECT THEIR CHOICE IN DOING THAT.
I also would buy a dog from Abbylynee before anyone. She seems honest, nice, fair, knowledgable and like someone I would like to deal with for the next 10 years.
That is such a strong statement 'smartest person'. I would say there are several people on here with a lot of good knowledge (including Scout for sure, even though we don't see eye to eye on everything, I respect her knowledge about animal care).
I wouldn't be brave enough to say 'who has most knowledge'. We haven't exactly had a dog quiz bowl on here or anything.
Hi everyone: I've been following along on this topic. Let me see if I understand where it is going.
Just because Katz was ignorant of, meaning didn't know of any potential health problems or risks of her dogs, then it is ok for Katz to raise her pet quality dogs with potential problems from them?
Yet, when someone like Redyre_Rotties shows a quality dog with a possibly defective elbow and raises puppies from that dog, it is totally wrong?
I think that backyard breeders shouldn't be raising puppies from dogs that they know nothing about, genetically or otherwise, just to create pet quality dogs. There are already too many people raising so-called pets, just check out the shelters.
*removed a totally uncalled for comment*
Although I wouldn't personally want a puppy with a dam having potentially defective elbows or joints, I certainly would never get consider getting a pet quality puppy from a backyard breeder that has never had their breeding stock tested genetically. You are just asking for trouble when buying from a backyard breeder.
***Edited By: scout1 on 12/2/2005 11:19:28 PM*** Reason: x
Katz--it took a lot of class to answer the way you did. To stop breeding because you need to learn more shows a lot more integrity than to continue breeding a SERIOUS health fault just because the dog looks good "in the ring". Another example of why being a "show breeder" does not mean a "good breeder".
Azul,please don't make this into a fight with your comments. I understand your right to freedom of speech,but some of your words(diamonds to dirt)are harsh and I consider them to be ineffective to making your opinion known.
I have all the best intentions when talking to Red and Katz,but I would NEVER call either of them diamonds...or dirt!
They both deserve our respect. Red is knowledgable and cares for the breeds,Katz does as well,or she wouldn't have quit breeding and wouldn't be learning how to do things correctly....she wouldn't even consider what she did in the past to be anything but good if she was a bad person with "money motives". She is learning,from all of you out there...both ladies are of beautiful mind and soul from what I can tell....don't say such harsh things to either of them.
I have read a lot on this website about the negative aspects of my favorite companion animal and I have had enough. Yes they can be stupid, cruel, violent, thoughtless and selfish. But more often they are kind and caring--why else would my second favorite companion animal worship them so?
***Edited By: scout1 on 12/3/2005 7:46:35 AM*** Reason: REMOVED A REFRRENCE TO ANOTHER POSTERS UNCALLED FOR COMMENT
Katz, good for you for being a big enough person to admit not knowing everything and admit to making mistakes. It seems unfair for someone to single you out and try to tear you down. We all make mistakes and the best we can hope for is to learn from them. You have, congrats!
azul, this is your first post ever on this site and you make a mean crack like this ? :
i really dont think you know enough about either one of them to make that assumption. i dont really know red, but she does seem knowledgable. i do know katz and she is far from being a dummy and i consider her a friend. so i too was insulted by your unessecary remarks. we should be here to share about our pets and give advice where we can. it is not our place to pass judgement on anyone else. that job is recieved for someone more powerful than anyone here on earth. and some people do put animals over people. i choose to put them as equally important. animals are a gift from above. it is the responsibility of humans to care for and love them. this forum is here for all of us to share that love. so i am sharing my three greatest loves right now :
Although I wouldn't personally want a puppy with a dam having potentially defective elbows or joints, ********************************************** Having trouble defending breeding health problems? Hardly rates as a "diamond" decision. Having knowlege is not enough--it's what you do when you have that knowledge that determines integrity. Katz does the right thing with what she has learned--I can't say that about RR.