I'm sorry, but this is to the person who says no matter what breed or size of dog they shouldn't be outside. I have had dogs for years and my dogs stay outside. They do however get to come in and stay with us a while, but on the other hand, they stay outside as well. Just because someone keeps their dogs outside doesn't mean that they do not take care of them. My dogs handle it fine outside. I make sure that they are kept clean, always have fresh water and food, and that they do get to spend time with us as well, and they have a house and shelter outside as well.. They are just as happy and healthy as a dog that is in all of the time. Not all dogs like to just stay indoors all of the time either. I think certain breeds are better outdoors. Not everyone wants dogs in their home all of the time, because of hair, peeing and pooping accidents, chewing on furniture, etc..Well, I do think small dogs belong inside, I am talking about big dogs, just wanted to clarify that. I think it is cruel to leave a dog in a crate for hours while the owners go to work while a dog outside can at least be free providing it has plenty of room to run in a nice fenced in area. I think keeping certain big dogs in the house is a person's own decision and shouldn't be made out that just because they keep them outside, they do not care for them. I mean, good lord if dogs can't learn to survive outside, then I think people should go rescue all of the wolves and bring them indoors...LOL I do not mean that literally...although I am sure there are a lot of you that would really do this LOL!
Most people here do not agree with keeping a dog outside all of it's life and then thinking it will be okay to breed the dog and keep the puppies outside the same way. Nobody here thinks a dog should be chained outside it's whole life.
I don't think any dog should be chained out at all! Sorry if I misread but, I have to also say not everyone wants to whelp a litter of puppies in their home either. I am talking about big breeds, not small. You will spend more time cleaning up poop and pee in your home when there are 6 to even 10 puppies. You will be cleaning up after them more than you can clean your own home. Not to mention the smell. I knew a person who raised puppies in their home and it smelled horrible. She kept her home clean, but it still smelled awful! and not to mention everytime you turned around she had to clean up a lot of poop and pee. I think people can whelp them outdoors and still see after them just as well. I think if people are going to keep puppies outside then they should have a nice home with soft bedding, poured concrete that is smoothed out not rough, if it is cold outside then a low heat light inside the dog house should be there to keep them warm. If it is hot, then you should bring them inside during the heat of the day and always keep plenty of fresh clean water out for them to drink, shelter over them and plenty of shade. Also, when it is not the heat of the day, you should have fans on them. Make sure that they are spent time with all of the time no matter if it is hot or cold. If they raise them outdoors, then they should make sure they keep their area cleaned and disinfected regularly, make sure they get vaccinated and dewormed regularly, vet checked.
People are going to breed no matter what, and some will whelp them in their home, and some will whelp them outdoors. If asked how to whelp outdoors, they should be told. If not then they will go on and whelp them outdoors and not know what they should do and harm a lot of puppies. I know people who have whelped their puppies outside as well and they did fine.
Sorry, but no responsible breeder whelps puppies and keeps them outdoors. PERIOD! The only people who would even contemplate something like that are either lazy or ignorant or both. What does the size of the dog matter? They are still puppies.
Gamebred pits are no more likely to attack someone than anyother breed. They are dog agressive not human aggressive. When dog fighting was legal HA pits werent tolerated. When the two dogs are in the ring the dogs owners and the ref had to be in there to. They couldnt be worried about being bit when they had to pull thier dogs apart. After the fight you had to be able to slap the dogs on tables and have 4 or 5 people working on them trying to save them. These dogs are worth good money. HA pits were usually put down or never bred. HA has came about in the lines because of people not caring what their dogs are like they just want the puppies. Just like with anyother breed. Unselective breedings will mess up any breed.
Husky, please dont insult my intelligance. Pits are my breed. They are the total package for me. You may feel the same about the dogs you breed and raise. Pits are what i know. I know other dogs have drive. Thier drive is different from a pits drive. You wouldnt understand that unless you own a pit.
Lazy! I think it is more that they do not want a smelly, nasty house. I see nothing wrong with it as long as they are taken care of properly. To me puppies raised indoors with A/C and heat that go home to a new family and say they develop a allergy or they can't for some reason keep them indoors will have more problems than one that is used to being outdoors. I have always had dogs outside except for our toy poodle at the time. They did fine. I see nothing wrong with it! there are a lot of people who raise puppies outside and do well. I see nothing lazy about it, it is just as much work keeping them outdoors as it is inside.
shiggs you are going to do what you are going to do. I don't think you are going to get too many people on here to agree that breeding dog aggressive dogs is a good thing.
Chels-- Puppies in the house is part of the deal. You don't want them in the house? Don't breed your dogs. I had a litter of 6 and a litter of 8 boxer puppies this summer that were 2 days apart. That is 14 puppies if you do the math. They were all in my kitchen (luckily I have a big kitchen).
If you do it right, your house won't smell. First mom takes care of all the waste by eating it the first 3-4 weeks. Then from week 4-7 I put in papers and change them every few hours.
Starting at 5-6 weeks (depending on weather) I start letting them outside 6-8 times a day. By 7 weeks my puppies are going outside 95% of the time and all they have is a few pee accidents on the papers now and again. I have no more smell in my house with 14 puppies than a lazy person would with 1 puppy.
That is doing it right. If you don't do it right--then don't do it at all. When you are dealing with animal care it really isn't something to skimp on.
Who here has raised a litter of puppies in thier house before? Show of hands? Not as many as you might think.
Have you ever raised a litter of 13? then a litter of 9 born 2 weeks after? Thats a whole lot of work. The mothers only clean up after them for so long and then it becomes your job.
Thats why im building my kennel right now. In a kennel i can take a hose and hose the entire thing down in a few minutes and the take a shop broom and scrub the floors and walls making it more sanitary for the pups to be outdoors. Its easy to take care of a little dog and thier 3-4 pups in the house. try tripling that number and then have something to say about it.
Hold his own is an expression. Like i bet that person could hold thier own. When i use it refering to dogs it means a dog that can stand up and protect themself. They are tough. A small dog like a poodle isnt going to be able to hold his own against a bigger dog.
I dont believe the people were being lazy. They were reaching out and asking for help. They wanted to know what goes into breeding. Instead of bashing them people could have pointed them to the right places on the web or books they should be reading. Maybe the OP learns better by talking to somebody. Who knows, we never will because people jumped the gun and chased them away.
I don't care, the person did the same thing and it still smelled bad. Maybe you just got used to the smell since you are in it all of the time. I am sorry but I think it is ridiculous to keep that many puppies in someone's house, because to me that is still nasty. I don't care how many times you clean, you still have that stench in your home. I don't care how many times you tell people not to breed if they can't keep them in their house, they are going to do it anyways. The dogs I have came from a breeder who raises them outdoors, I see nothing different in them than people raising them indoors. I think it is just a personal decision and opinion whether or not you want them indoors or outdoors.
I know other dogs have drive. Thier drive is different from a pits drive. You wouldnt understand that unless you own a pit.
Drive from breed to breed varies yes in what the drive is for....and how strong the drive is...
Now lets loopk at a "game "pits drive....The drive is generally directed at other dogs. especially male on male. they have a drive to fight with other dogs. and a lot of it. Now I am big on nature. I do not like things that are unnatural. unnatural to me= problems. like people who breed gigantic pits or teacup chi's the dogs are usually full of problems. So knowing what I know about dogs. dogs are pack driven animals. at least in my book they should be. They should, if introduced as a puppy to your dogs be social with them. not have to fight for it's life. The purpose of a pack is to insure ones survival. pack unity promotes individual survival. are you following me? So I find it very un natural that dogs that live together and are raised together want to kill each other. This to me is not a plus....but a fault. That is not breed standard. Hell that is not even dog standard. it goes against a dogs natural instinct to take care of it's own. So, I would be concerned if the dogs whom look at me as there leader. if they are willing to kill a pack mate...do I really trust thier loyalty. Now...I have seen pits that are totally capable of pack drive with the same species. these dogs defintly seem more stable to me. So for me my dog is the Beligan Malinois. Whom for me are the dog of dogs. to hot handle and to cold to hold for most people. These dogs have drive oozing out of them but it's not to kill pack mates. it's to chase and catch things. like a rag or a rabbit. very natural drives to hunt....called Prey drive. also malinois are loaded with Pack drive....the need to to protect the pack.
also shiggs. If a game pit is the total package. I mean I know why malinois for me are the total package. I see why nordic breeds for husky hauler are the total package. But I do not understand why would want a dog with that type of drive. and not do anything with it. again like having a 4 wheel drive jeep all souped up to go out the desert. but you only drive it to church.
Now i do use a flirt pull, and i do have a jenny mill. But if that's all my dogs did that would be boring real fast.
Alicat, im not trying to get anybody to agree with me. People are going to think what they want. I just expect the same respect i give to yall. I dont jump on yalls cases about what you do.
My dogs are never thrown food or water. I have an pipe system setup to the yard. I turn it on and it automatically fills thier water. They are fed twice a day out of 2 5 gallon pails that i use to carry the food out to them. They always have clean dishes. The yard is raked everynight. All solid waste is picked up and disposed of. Bedding is changed out every 1-2 weeks depending on the weather and the condition of it. Rainy weather its changed more often to prevent molding. Everyone is taken of the chain atleast 1 every day for excercise, a once over to make sure they are healthy, and bonding time. Multiply that by 4 adult dogs and a litter of 7 and thats a whole lot of work.
Gunny, Pits are my breed because i love the drive. I love the dogs. The body structure, the loyalty, everything about them down to the goofy looks they give ya.
I use flirt poles, spring pole, treadmill. My dogs have a pond i take them swimming in. We go running at night. They have a whole box full of toys they play with when i take them off the chain to excercise. Most of them love to fetch. I use some of them for weight pull. They get a mix of everything. Im always trying new things for them. See what works best for each dog.
To the OP - Breeding is not something that you just "decide" to do... it takes a lot of education and testing to do it properly. JRT are not outdoor dogs. They are little, they have short hair and they require a lot of socialization. Breeding puppies and whelping them outside is not ok. The only exception that I can MAYBE see is if you live on a farm and own a very warm barn and are prepared to spend a lot of your time out with the pups... and even then, are you breeding dogs for pets or are you breeding them as "farm dogs"... there's a difference.
People need to ask themselves WHY they own a dog. I own my dogs because they are my companions. They make my life better, and I in turn, make their life better.
Shiggs... I think it was you that said that you keep your dogs on chains to keep them from killing each other... they have ceased to be "pets" if you cannot enjoy all of them. They have become a "prize". If you have dogs that cannot get along and are "gaming" or dog aggressive - perhaps you should rehome all but one so that you can give the one all of your attention. Certainly you should not be breeding MORE dog aggressive Pits. Saying that that's how they are SUPPOSED to be is ludicrous. That's the way that MAN bred them, for their own selfish, money hungry reasons... and MAN was stupid when they did it... now there are good, honrable breeders who are trying to conserve the beauty of the PIT and get rid of the dog-aggressive tendencies to correct the damage that has been done.
Normally I am all over the members of this forum for "jumping" on new members... I have to say that I read ALL of the posts on this thread and never once saw something that I would have considered inappropriate.
Also alicat1, no one said anything about just throwing water and food twice a day. If they whelp outside they have to make sure it is cleaned up and sanitized just as much as you would keeping them in your home. They should do everything with them just as they would if they kept them inside. But, there is more to keeping them warm and cool. Also, they should have to play with them and socialize them everyday, I mean even them bringing them in to let them play with the family where they can be watched for a few hours. I am not saying that accidents will not happen, but they will not be pooping, and peeing in the home constantly. I think people who will be raising puppies outdoors and no matter what they do, they will be judged by people like you because that is not your opinion of how it should be done. But everyone has an opinion, some will agree and some will not. Like I said, it is just a matter of opinion.
Shiggs- I believe you when you say that YOU are not fighting your dogs. They are too valuable to you as breeders and need to be kept in top shape for that purpose right? But these gamebred pups that you are selling to these select few "dogmen" ARE being used for fighting. What other reason would they want a "gamebred" dog from you? They keep coming back to you for pups as theirs are getting killed fighting. You are truly sickening and I hope that there is someone close to you that will do the right thing and report you to the authorities....
Chels123- People making their dogs raise litters outside IS lazy and irresponsible. If you truly cared about the pups that you were producing, they would be where you can keep an eye on them. How are you going to know which pups are sickly? They can go off their milk and die within a matter of hours. How are you protecting them from disease before their first vaccinations? How are you protecting them from fleas and intestinal parasites? How are you going to know if the bitch is laying on and smothering her pups? You don't know unless they are indoors with you. We had a litter of 5 and a litter of 10 within 5 days of each other in June. Yes, 15 pups in the house. There is a lot of cleaning involved to be sure that your house doesn't stink. But if you are wanting to breed and raise healthy pups, that's what needs to be done.
gr8danzgirl-- Well said. I completely agree. My kitchen is tiled and we have linolium over the tiling and then the whelping boxes. My kitchen doesn't stink from the puppies-- and it is not because we are used to it.
When my puppies are in the kitchen I can hear every sqeek every cough, sniffle or cry. I have saved puppies from being smooshed by a tired mom. If they were in a kennel I would have lost those puppies. You just can't keep track of things as if they were in your house.
It is very easy to ignore puppies needs if you don't have to look at them or hear them constantly. Not saying that every one does, but it would be easier to do.
I know I need to replace my 5 year old living room carpeting, but that is the ONLY room in the house that has a dog smell. Period. And I have a hell of a lot of dogs in my house.
I can judge others that I think are lazy and neglecting there puppies. A kennel is one thing--that isn't how I would raise my dogs--but I know some do.
Outside or in a crappy dog house or shed or WORST out in the elements is NEGLECT which is a form of abuse. Animals have a right to shelter from the elements. I would hope that anyone raising puppies truly outside gets animal control called on them and their dogs/puppies yanked.
***Edited By: alicat1 on 8/28/2006 1:27:41 PM*** Reason: sp
sonja- my dogs are not "prizes" They are breeders. I have a pet dog. He lives in the house with me. All my dogs get attention. Im out there every morning and every night.
gr8danz- Yes my dogs are quite valuble to me, and yes i try to keep them in top condition. Pregnancy and whelping go alot better, atleast in my opinion, when a dog is in shape.
Sadly like most you jump to the conclusion that somebody is fighting them. I dont do it with my dogs so why would i sell a pup to someone who would. The dogmen i am talking about are people that i have know since i was a small child. They are people who have been my family for years. I know them. We trade stock and pups all the time trying to find what will fit into our yard/breeding plans.
No, no cops. They dont bother with us to much. A few run ins but most are afraid of the dogs. I dont know where you are from but down here you dont snitch. It can have some bad results.
I have to admit though, i have been called many things but never truely sickning. Thats a first.
Raising pups outside isnt a terrible thing. Its all in how you do it. No a mother dog shouldnt be left to fend for her pups in a cold drafty dog house. That is wrong. But there is no reason why somebody if they have the proper setup cant raise them outdoors.