Kayzhond: "Like I keep saying, dogs digest holistic better therefore they don't need as much as they do with the other kinds of food. So, you shouldn't be buying as much, as often as you would the Nutro."
How did you come to that conclusion, Kayzhond? Do you have any quotable sources (that are not from a holistic food's website) that would back up that statement? (Sorry, but when it comes to food, I've got to have more than just someone saying it's so.) Thanks!
There are plenty of premium foods that are not holistic that you'd feed less of.
***Edited By: gbroxon on 4/4/2007 3:29:47 PM*** Reason: 'Cause.
Maybe I'm just tired (yard work, washing dogs, spring cleaning, mopping floor, mopping stairs, vacuuming pet hair...) but I couldn't find the thread.
Basically, they complained that the Kirkland food stank, that the kibble was surface sprayed with fats to make it palatable, that some of the dogs didn't do well on it. Also, they were spooked by the Diamond recall last year. But lots of people like it and feed it all the time.
I didn't want to feed it because there are not Costco stores on every corner in St. Louis and there are PetSmart stores and Petco stores everywhere. The Blue Buffalo rep says that they are rolling out their product in the Petco stores very soon. If this food works out, I want the adoptive families to keep the dogs on it so it should be convenient for them.
The coupons that the Blue Diamond people give out right now are some kind of discount for breeders that they may be planning on extending to rescues. This rep was planning to sell her boss on the idea, at least for the St. Louis area. I told her if we could get a discount, that I would include information on the Blue Buffalo with every rescue at least that is placed from my home.
And to that woman who said that I had not figured the cost of Nutro vs. Blue Buffalo. I DID and it is outlined in my previous post.
***Edited By: CatDogMom on 4/1/2007 10:34:01 AM*** Reason: forgot to put in what food I was talking about
You may also want to check out Natural Balance, which can be found at PetCo. It's cheaper than Blue Buffalo and is also a good food.
I'm in the St. Louis area, too and have not found Canidae at the kind of prices that other people on this board pay for it. I just order mine online because if I'm going to shell out the big bucks for it, I might as well have it delivered to my front door.
Depending on where you live, you might want to check out Pets in the City. I know the store sells a number of good foods, but I don't know what the prices are like because the location is totally inconvenient for me.
Minniyar, I bought a 40# bag & a 20# bag of Canidae yesterday, along with 3 bottles of shampoo ($9.99 each) the total came to $93.00, with tax.
I spend just about $40.00 (tax included) for the 40# bag of Canidae, which lasts (with 3 dogs) just under 2 weeks. It averages out to about 1.5 pounds a day, per dog, or about 3.5 cups per day. About $1.50 a day per dog. I THINK, if my math is correct. Then again, since it's early, I'm probably NOT right~lol.
Looking for something to give the average cost per day of feeding a dog and came across this, thought it was interesting..though I am NOT promoting the use of any food on here. Just thought the graph/chart was interesting in the cost break-down. This chart is from BEFORE all the recalls and lists some of the suspect or recalled foods. http://www.dog-food-nutrition.com/comparison.htm
***Edited By: pyrmom on 4/1/2007 6:46:59 AM*** Reason: *
"Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful".
I live on Long Island and about a year and a half ago, they recalled Kirkland and Diamond foods (same company) because they were only spot checking thing that came from the mills. Some of the shipments had toxins in them. I had several clients that used that food. They discontinue use until the situation was fixed. I apoligize I believed it was corn it very well could have been another ingrediant. I do know everyone that used kirkland thought and still thinks it is a great food. I just wanted it to be know that in the past there was a problem, I did not mean to offend anyone, if I did I am sorry.
It is better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all.
I agree about them jacking up the price on Canidae. I use to have my daughter bring it home from the city @ 38.55 per 40 lbs. My vet then started carrying it for 27.00 per 40 lbs and now a friend of mine that sells seed and feed got it in at 24.95 per 40.00 lbs. and he tells me that he makes a profit from it and he should. We live in South Dakota.
I feed my dogs and cats TomberWolf Organics and I usually buy it from a local distributor.
A 16.5 LB bag is about $21.99 and a 33 LB bag is $42.99. I typically switch between Ocean Blue and Elk and Salmon formulas and buy 49.5 LBS of food every 4 months (16 weeks). If you do the math... I'm paying $64.98 every 4 months (minus tax). So, that amounts to $194.94 on dog food per year.
When I was feeding Iams, I was feeding Lamb Meal and Rice and buying a 20 LB bag at $20.69 every month and a half (6 weeks) because my dogs were eating it like it was going out of style.
Even though I was spending $29.42 less with Iams, I was getting garbage with ingredients like brewers rice, corn meal, chicken by-product meal, and corn grits. Heck, I wasnt even getting a good source of protein as the FIRST ingredient. Instead of getting lamb, I was getting lamb meal. When I look at TimberWolf Organics ingredients and see that it's free from fillers, by-products, chemical preservatives and giving me actual meat as the first ingredient, it didn't take me very long to decide that $29.42 more was well worth it, especially since they don't eat it like it's going out of style. And quite frankly, they don't have to since it's easier to digest.
Originally posted by gbroxon: How did you come to that conclusion, Kazyhond? Do you have any quotable sources (that are not from a holistic food's website) that would back up that statement? (Sorry, but when it comes to food, I've got to have more than just someone saying it's so.) Thanks!
There are plenty of premium foods that are not holistic that you'd feed less of."
It's just common knowledge among the dog world and those of us who feed holistic that you feed less than the low and medium grade garbage foods because they can digest it better. Low and medium grade garbabge foods contain all those fillers, by-products, and chemical preservatives that holistic food don't and the fillers, by-products, and chemical preservatives are what makes the garbage foods harder to digest. Because it takes a lot to digest that garbage food, they eat more than they'd be eating with holistic food.
Anyhow, you don't have to take my word for it even though I've been feeding my dogs low and medium grade garbage foods for 9 years and holsitic food for 2 years and can clearly see a difference with my own two eyes.
I never wanted to believe what others said about it either UNTIL I switched and saw for myself.
***Edited By: Kayzhond on 4/1/2007 6:22:13 PM*** Reason: added something minor
Lamb meal is NOT garbage. It is the meat with fat and moisture extracted. It is actually a better value, because you are not paying for the water in the meat. Some pet foods list "whole" meat ingredients because it sounds better but you have to compare the actual meat your pet is getting, not moisture.
Chicken meal, lamb meal, turkey meal, salmon meal are all good sources of protein. Chicken by-product is the real garbage.
Here's a description from the Blue Buffalo website:
Lamb Meal Lamb meal is a highly digestible protein source produced by cooking lamb at high temperatures, extracting the fat and drying the meat residue. It is a meat protein, providing essential amino acids and fatty acids, vitamins, and minerals for muscle development and energy. It is naturally stabilized with mixed tocopherols and rosemary to preserve freshness
"Lamb meal is NOT garbage. It is the meat with fat and moisture extracted. It is actually a better value, because you are not paying for the water in the meat. Some pet foods list "whole" meat ingredients because it sounds better but you have to compare the actual meat your pet is getting, not moisture."
that's what i have understood- if plain meat is the first ingredient- chicken, lamb, salmon etc.- with a grain as the second, you can actually be getting more grain than protein when the moisture content of the protein source is considered.
POULTRY MEAL (CHICKEN MEAL) - AAFCO: The clean combination of poultry flesh and skin with or without bone. Does not contain feathers, heads, feet or entrails. If from a particular source it may state so (i.e. chicken, turkey etc).
Note how in this product the source is not defined as "slaughtered poultry".The manufacturer does not disclose the species (or the mix of species) of the poultry used. The fowl can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Any kind of animal can be included: "4-D animals" (dead, diseased, disabled, or dying prior to slaughter), turkey, chicken, geese, buzzard, seagulls, misc. roadkill, birds euthanized at shelters and so on.
FISH MEAL - AAFCO: The clean, rendered, dried ground tissue of undecomposed whole fish or fish cuttings, either or both, with or without the extraction of part of the oil.
Like with all other animal sources, if a type isn't specified, you never know what type or quality of fish is used. According to US Coast Guard regulations, all fish meal not destined for human consumption must be conserved with Ethoxyquin (unless the manufacturer has a special permit). This preservative is banned from use in foods for human consumption except for the use of very small quantities as a color preservative for spices. So unless the manufacturer either presents a permit or states "human grade" fish or fish meal is used, you can be pretty sure Ethoxyquin is present in the food even if it is not listed.
LIVER MEAL - AAFCO: The dried product of ground hepatic glands of mammals.
Whenever the word 'meat' or the name of an organ appear by themselves (without a species) on a pet food label, there is no way to know which kind of animal it came from. It could be horse liver, goat, duck, pig, or even skunk or other animals of questionable origin.
However, despite the fact that there's Chicken Meal in Blue Buffalo that doesn't mean it's a bad food. Like Mordanna said, there's certain things you want to avoid, if at all possible, but the fact a food has one or even two bad ingredients doesn't mean it's a bad food you shouldn't be feeding. You have to look at the ingredients as a whole. Since the Meal in Blue Buffalo comes AFTER meat itself as the first ingredient, it's nothing to be majorly concerned about.
***Edited By: kAYZHOND on 4/3/2007 10:35:29 PM*** Reason: spelling error
Yes, you SHOULD question "poultry" meal, "liver" meal and "fish" meal. The better dog foods all specify exactly what the meal source is. You will see turkey meal, chicken meal, lamb meal, even occasionally beef meal. Salmon meal and herring meal are also used.
I was also told that the reason they all say "human grade" food as if it were such a good thing was that "human grade" food has to be tested, where animal feed does not.
Chicken meal, etc. is NOT a bad food.
I purchase a pound of ground round and cook it until it has almost no moisture in it. I then rinse the fat off. I then put the ground round in the oven at low temperature for an hour so. I get beef bits that are dry and crispy.
Presto! Beef meal.
Stabilize it with vitamin E extract (mixed topereracols) and cook it into a mixture with grain, vegetables etc. and you have kibble that can be shipped and stored without spoiling.
So tell me what is wrong with beef meal? It's a better product than a Big Mac!