We raise CKC Great Danes and I we are NOT a puppy mill by any stretch of the mind. We love our dogs and are proud of their temperment , intelligence, socialization and health. We do not breed for the show ring as most of the people in my area just want a pure bred , quality dog that will be a part of their family . Is it so terrible that they are CKC registered instead of AKC? They do not have to worry about what the background is of our dogs because we have researched their pasts. NO aggressive or past health issues and we have had no issues with any of our puppies( except for a person whos dog got parvo a year after she bought it from us...saying it was from us...). We socialize our puppies as soon as they are born and our dogs have been featured in newspapers and movies for their personality and because they are so well mannered( one dog was in Firehouse dog movie credits).Also another question; who at the CKC would want to accept any dog into the fold if they felt it did not conform to the guidelines? Do they just go out and grab someone off the street and say..hey..would you might looking at this photo and telling us if it looks like a Great Dane; I 'll pay ya 5 bucks? I am sure they DO know what they are doing. Why would they want to ruin thier reputation? Thank you for any infoyou might have on this . Take care.
Do you mean the Canadian Kennel Club, or the Continental Kennel Club? If you are breeding dogs, your main reason should be to improve the breed because you love it so much. What health testing do you perform on your dogs?
I am going to assume you are talking about the continental kennel club, and not the canadian. It is the know kennel club for byb and puppymills. They do little research on the lines, and if your dog looks the part it could be registared. I am sure their on many good people who use it, but I for one would not purchase from you. I belive anyone who breeds should show, how do you know that your dog is breeding quality. It doesn't have to be confirmation. Herding dogs can be shown in herding, working dogs in working classes, terriers in rodent things. If you dont do anything with your dog but breed it, how are bettering the breed? Just my opinion.
Illusions is right. I too would not buy from you partly b/c you register with the Conkc and partly b/c you don't show. If you don't show then how do you know your dogs fit the standard. Relying soley on one's own opinion is pretty arrogant. Breeders who show get feed back from judges and other breeders. I too want "just pets" but it's important to me that they look and act the part. That's what you get from a show breeder. Good breeders go by their own values not what the public is willing to settle for. If you're breeding for your own preferences and don't do any health testing, then it doesn't matter whether you register with the "CKC" or the AKC.
Are you aware that the Continental Kennel Club can no longer call itself the "CKC" as that refers to the Canadian Kennel Club? If you are aware, then continuing to use CKC makes you seem dishonest.
Thank you for your opinions; I knew I was putting myself in the hot seat by asking this question but I really would like to know and you have all heard quite a bit of info I am sure.
It is the Continental Kennel Club. First of all ; Who says that all of CKC breeders are puppy mills..etc? Is it the AKC owners? I don't want to beat around the bush and I REALLY don't want to offend anyone as I am sure this is a very sensitive area but who is it exactly? As for health checks ; we have a vet check all of our puppies and she is very familiar with our dogs and recommends them to people looking for Great Danes. Second; we believe that by being selective with what characteristic the dog has IS improving the breed. We had a bitch that we raised a while back but try as we might to get her out of her skittishness; she was always nervous.. a trait I DO NOT want in my danes. So we sold her to a single person and even screened that very well( no breeding..they had to guarentee that she was going to be fixed, etc.)We enhance the breed by breeding only the best traits as well as only the best markings. And we do not sell puppies that do not comform to that with breeding rights; they will have to get them fixed. And last why would CKC actually DO that ( let people register mutts?) I would think that would come back to bite them ( no pun intended) later on. Wouldn't they have experts who would determine what the breed should conform to and register it accordingly? thanks for you time!
No I did not know that about the CKC ( in regards to they do not use just the letters anymore). I will have to check that out. As for the color and conformation; I have a friend who DOES show and she helps us out. But there are quite a few sites with information in regards to color and conformation as well. I am not arrogant what so ever;and I am sorry that you feel that way. I do not breed for showing but the people that I sell to buy them for the breed to enjoy. Isn't that important too? If someone wanted to buy a Great Dane from you and didn't want to show ; would you sell them to them?
The reason that the ContKC registers dogs with nothing more than a picture is that all they are interested in is the almighty dollar. I'm with the others. While I respect that you love and care for your dogs, I'd never buy a dog from you or even recommend you as a breeder, because I have that little respect in the ContKC.
Don't get me wrong, the AKC is not without it's flaws but at least they allow dog owners to participate in hundreds (if not thousands) of performance and conformation events annually. They want more than a picture as proof that a dog is purebred. Even so, AKC registered is not an indicator of quality. I've seen some very poor examples of AKC registered dogs that have been bred.
Also, to me, 'vet checked' is not health testing. OFA certifications for hips and CERF cert for the dog's eyes should be done on all great danes (and a ton of other large breed dogs) at the bare minimum before breeding.
Regarding not selling to people who don't show... when you are showing and breeding dogs, some of the puppies from the litter have conformation that makes them do better in dog shows. Some dogs have slight flaws, like a slight overbite, or a color mismark, that means they'd have a harder time competing with dogs of their breed when judged against the national breed club's standard. All of the puppies have the potential to be great pets, but it takes an extraordinary puppy from the litter to do well as a show dog. The puppies that aren't selected to go to families intending to show end up going to 'pet homes'.
Never trust a tall dwarf... he's lying about something.
But I thought that the ContKC did have performance events??? Do they not? And I understand if you have had a bad experience with the ContKC but to judge my dogs in that regard seems to lump me in with the puppy mills and the dogs who do not have great dispositions, health and have been socialized. I do have the adults hips certified but I am under the impression that puppies cannot be fully guaranteed until 2 years of age. I do not bred my dogs for others to breed from. They are pet quality and it is rare that I do have one that I will sell for breeding. I have a blue and when he throws a solid blue that fits all the other requirements then I will check with the expert( as much as she can be considered...she is not arrogant either)to see if they will qualify. We do check the bite, etc. as well .
How does the AKC differ in how it determines if a dog is purebred? And wouldn't you think that the ContKC would have someone who knew what they were doing ; not just the guy that empties the garbage? No one has answered me on that note. Thank you for your info.
And how is the ContKC in it for the buck? Is the AKC not in it for a profit?
And last; if someone who loves the breed and wants a family dog from you ; how much would you charge them? Being he is from Ch stock?
The AKC is a non-for-profit organization. I don't know if the ContKC is one or not as I can't get their main website to load atm, but I'm pretty sure they're not.
The ContKC does have a few performance events annually, but the AKC has more events in a single month than the ContKC has in an entire year. And the AKC has far more venues available for dog enthusists, including lure coursing, tracking, obedience, agility, rally obedience, earthdog trials, hunt tests, and herding to name a few. Additionally, the ContKC only does 'fun matches' for conformation. There's no true method of evaluating breeding stock in the ContKC, even if you were so inclined, like other reputable dog registries have. Other dog registries in countries like Canada and England won't let you register a ContKC registered dog with them, because they dont' consider it a 'real' dog registry the way the AKC is.
The AKC revokes and refuses registration priveledges for people who have been convicted of animal abuse or neglect, or who have fradulently registered dogs as purebred with them. Many of those breeders The AKC can require breeders to do DNA testing on dogs they've bred (typically if a complaint has been issued regarding that breeder registering mixed breed dogs as purebreds), and in fact they require DNA testing on any male dog that's been more than 5 times as a stud.
I think a good question here is, after having heard all of the negative things about the ContKC, why would you want to keep supporting them by registering your dogs with them? How exactly did you get ContKC registered dogs in the first place?
Back before I knew as much as I know now, my husband and I were on the hunt for our first purebred dog. We of course had heard of the AKC, but we kept seeing ads for ContKC registered dogs, so did some research on them. We both decided that ContKC papers aren't really worth the ink that's used to print them. It seemed like it was a registry made purely for profit, for people who just wanted a 'registered dog' and little more. I remember back then they touted the fact that their registration services were cheaper than the AKCs. It was a difference of like.. $5. We decided we would stick with the AKC as at least the AKC actually feeds the registration fees back into providing numerous outlets for dog lovers to participate in with their dogs instead of doing nothing more than pocketing the money.
And actually, no, I don't think the ContKC is interested in having people who know or care what they're doing, since it's my firm belief from what I've seen that they just are interested in getting money. Not giving dog lovers more for their money than a shiny piece of paper.
Never trust a tall dwarf... he's lying about something.
I have looked into the ConKC a couple of times becuase they reconize my breed (mini aussies). AKC doesn't accept them yet. After doing research on them, I found that no breed clubs accepted them. They to me says alot. Personally pet quality dogs can be found anywhere from shelters to rescues, why contribute to the population that dies every day becuase no on want them? That is what separates you and other byb from repuable ones. It is not to say that if they change their ways that they can not be respected in the future. If people really did the research they should before purchasing a pet, then registries like them wouldn't fly.
To anwser your question about prices, my pet prices are the same no matter what lines they come from. A pet is a pet. They also come with a spay/neuter contract, and lifetime health guarentee. If you want a show dog, they price is same. The purchaser picks the bloodlines they want, and even two bad dogs can produce a champion. two good dogs can produce a horrible litter. It is just how the bloodline cross.
If you feel you cant give a decent health guarentee, you shouldn't be breeding. yes things go wrong, and refunds have to be made. Sometimes you have to take a dog back just becuase it is good buisness. Without it I belive the breeding program is useless, and the person is only in it for the money.
ConKC is known for being a bad registry. It is no ones fault but their own. The biggest difference is with every pedigree or litter registration sent to AKC has DNA'ed dogs, or they look the up to make sure they are purebred. ConKC says thanks for the money and here you go. They really pay no attention to any of the info on the litter or dog registration. It is not to say that their are not good breeders with in them. It is also not to say that every AKC breeder is a good one, but if you check with puppymills, 90% are ConKC registared. People in general can be back stabbing and horrible. The general public can be hard to trust. I have met some wonderful people in my breed, and I have met some I wouldn't socialize with no matter what. I am sure that is true in every breed.
If you are happy doing what you are doing then great, don't change. If you want to do what is best for the dogs, and be the best breeder you can, then get up and show your dogs, find a repuable AKC breeder. Do every possible health test no matter what the cost. Breeding should be about producing the best possible dog, the highly sought after perfect for its breed. Breeding for pets is a waste of time in my personal opinion. Everyone, and in every litter gets pets. Only good breeders strive for more!!!!
To be honest with you I really didn't think there was that much of a differance and that AKC breeders just had a sour taste in their mouth because a new club came along and they were the big bad kids on the block. I am going to do more research and it makes me really sad to be associated with a group that so many people find offensive because my dogs are anything but ...but they are registered ContKC and from what I understand I cannot register them AKC ( although one of my bitches is AKC and ContKC). The breeders that I bought them from said that there was no difference and that the AKC was just for the snooty people out there that jsut wanted to capitalize the market and money was the most important to them ( from her NOT me..don't lynch me..just the messenger..it is funny that you had the same thing to say about money in regards to ContKC).and the dogs were the same in that you just had to be careful as you did with any breeder. When I went onto a web site to read up on it ; it didn't seem until recently that things have gotten really heated.
I can't get their web site to load either but I am going to keep trying . I really do want to keep an open mind and find out the facts before I make a decision,. I do not know you and you could be one of the people that the breeder mentioned above..just kidding.. but really I do need to do more research on the issue at hand.
I will relieve your minds of one thing though. I LOVE my dogs and they are happy , healthy ( genetically as well) , smart, sound, funny , loyal , no defects, part of our family, kind, easy going and beautiful even though they are not perfect show quality. They are definitly family quality and the families that buy them are in love with them and we still get e-mails form 4 years ago about thier dogs. We also screen people as thoroughly as we can with out a private eye. I wouldnot expect you to buy from me but I would hope that you would understand that I love the breed and would not EVER do it harm( physically or in regards to breeding !) I was a vet tech for years and have seen some pretty evil things. I applaud AKC for standing up for the abused dogs out there but i also think that Cont.KC does as well. Thank you so much for your information. I plan to find out more. Take care and give your dogs a hug from ours.
Sorry ..my last reply was to the person before you. I do all the health checks on my dogs...??? where did you get that I didn't ??? Also I am sorry but in myu opinion just because you show a dog does not mean he is a great dog. There is alot more to the dog than what he looks like or his conformation or how his hair shines in the sun. I guess that sounded a little offensive but it seems like I have been on the defensive since I started this post. I do not want to sound like a female dog but my dogs are just as wonderful as yours..maybe just not as shiny.
Illusionminis and Minn have said pretty much everything about the ConKC, I will only add that what to me makes them skeezy is that they will take an AKC or CKC dog that was sold on a non-breeding agreement and register it and allow its offspring to be registered. This is the reason many BYB choose them, they were sold dogs that were not to be bred for one reason or another and bred them anyways, most people do not know the difference between the registries.
Mini Aussies are not a recognized breed with the AKC, I am sure they are trying to gain AKC recognition though, it takes time.
The CKC is not a good registery. For some reason your dogs are not AKC,but I'm guessing at some time they were.Why are they no longer.Did a good breeder sell some dog in your dogs past on limited registeration and the person bred the dog and registered with CKC? Since your breed in recognized with AKC they should be AKC registered first and then registered with other registerys. By breeding CKC registered dogs you are not helping the breed any.So most would say yes you are a BYB with no thought to the future of the breed. About health testing you said your vet checks all your dogs.Which would mean you have no clue about OFA. These are the test one needs to test for in Great Danes.
I got the idea that you didn't do health testing when you said your dogs are all vet checked. Vet checked is not the same as having OFA and CERF exams done. All vet checked means is that at the time of the examination, the puppies appeared to be healthy. That's it. I'm glad you do OFA exams on your breeding dogs hips though, but you're right, while prelim exams cna be done on dogs younger than 2 years, OFA won't certify them until the dog is 2+ years. That's another reason why dogs shouldn't be bred until they're 2+ years old, unless something like PennHIP is done (they certify hips as early as 4months).
Never trust a tall dwarf... he's lying about something.
thought id also post my opinion, I agree not all CKC reg dogs are bad breeders, but the ckc is sorta like the ukci they will reg anything. if you go to the ukci website you will notice they reg mixes or as they now call them designer dogs. that is why i would not buy a ckc reg dog personally. the AKC will not reg just anything, you have to have a 3 generation pedagree at least. or parents already reg with akc. example: they are now accepting rat terriers as a foundation stock, meaning if your rat terrier is reg with a reputable registry AND you have at least a 3 gen pedagree for it then and only then will they accept it under foundation stock with photos and proven pedagrees, after they get enough rat terriers registered with AKC they will stop registering them, UNLESS there registered threw there parents that are already registered with akc-fss. that way they have proven lines. with the ckc and ukci for example its way to easy to get dogs papered. Now as for breeding and showing i have to say (just my opinion) but you do not have to show to breed. BUT it would be a good idea to know the breed standard. testing is very important. no body wants a puppy with lux patellas or hip problems. its too heart breaking to watch them suffer in pain due to bad breeding. even if your only selling your puppies as pets you would still want to have a good healthy puppy, without the worries of in a year or 2 have it comeup with genetic health problems that could be avoided by selecting heathy, sound parents. i would buy a puppy from a breeder who dont show there dogs. but i do by pass the ckc registered ones. I do breed on occasion but i dont show my dogs, i know what i like to see in the breeds looks and to be honest not every show judge likes the same things. a nicely built dog that fits the breed standard or better yet excedes the breed standard and has passed all testing. remember not every show dog has a full litter of show quality puppies, might only get 1 or 2 in a litter or even none.
Yes, we do want to get into AKC, as Miniature Aussie, just like there are mini poodles. AKC wants us to be a seperate breed, and since there is nothing behind our(good breeders lol) dogs but aussies, it makes it hard. Some people don't take us seriously, and that is fine. I dont mind. My dog do everything they are supposed to. Not every mini aussie breeder is a good one in my opinion, I have talked to some people who are proud of the fact that they breed the instinct out of them. I just turn around and walk away. They were bred to herd, and they will herd or not reproduce. Just FYI
Thank you everyone for your information! Ihave come to the right place although alot of you did not agree with the CKC ; you were openminded enough to tell me why .I have learned quite a bitfrom this site and I am going to bookmark it . It looks like a great place to find out more information and talk to other lovers of those great furry people out there that we all lov eso much! Be it a Great Dane or a Terrior.
There are approximately 30 different recognized registries. AKC is an old well respected registry, and is very picky about which dogs they will register. To have your dogs registered AKC, they have to come from AKC stock, or be from one of the few registries that they recognize. I have a female that is triple registered Canadian Kennel Club (she's from Canada), APRI, and AKC. You can dual register your female if she is registerable with AKC.