I'm beginning to find it very frustrating that on so many topics on this site someone always seems to have to jump in and act like a jackass to try and get something started! It's hard to have to weed through the BS. Just ignore them. Maybe they will go away.
Save whatever is not a bio hazard and stick it somewhere else. Sadly to say that everthing else, they need to light a match and go home.
I also think the people who do not want to leave that have houses with only slight damage due to winds, they should move their homes wherever they want free of charge in the U.S. that may get some people motivated to leave. I know it would make me! They just want their home and their memories....
***Edited By: pope1982 on 9/6/2005 11:56:54 PM*** Reason: ...
I love New Orleans. It has an amazing culture and a long, rich history. There simply is no other place like it, and I would hate to lose that culture and history.
New Orleans is hardly the only city vulnerable to horrific natural disasters. San Francisco could experience more powerful earthquakes than it has up to this point. And, interestingly, the worst earthquake in the history of the United States took place in Missouri along the New Madrid fault line in the early 1800s, so St. Louis is vulnerable as well. Because of fault lines in the ocean, a tsunami could wipe out Seattle.
New Orleans have two levies, one along the river and one along the lake. The river levy held up fine; the lake levy fell apart. The Army Corps of Engineers, which is in charge of the levy system, had been bugging the federal government for some time for funds to improve the lake levy, but the government wouldn't give the Army Corps of Engineers the money it needed to make the improvements. If you think this investment is an inappropriate way to spend federal money, consider that we're building a 250 mile bridge to reach like 50 people in Alaska.
Part of the problem is also the deterioration of the wetlands/barrier islands that served as protection for the city. Senator Landrieu has a bill for wetland restoration, which we need regardless of whether or not New Orleans is rebuilt, that has been stuck in committee for years.
Because the city is now a toxic dump, I don't know that it can be made habitable any time in the forseeable future, but if it can be, the city can be made safer by improving the levies and restoring the wetlands.
Oddly enough, most hurricanes are more annoying than they are dangerous, unless you're doing something stupid. You stay inside, away from windows, and you're fine. You lose water for a day and power for a few days. It's uncomfortable but not life-threatening.
Most hurricanes come ashore as level 1 or level 2. Of course, if you're hit by a major hurricane (3, 4, or 5), that's a whole new ballgame. We rebuilt Miami after Andrew turned it into a city of matchsticks, even though Miami continues to remain vulnerable to hurricanes.
I don't know if New Orleans specifically should be rebuilt, but I don't think we should just give up on the idea without letting the engineers take a critical look at the situation. If we abandon every place destroyed by natural disasters, including hurricanes, floods, wild fires, tornadoes, earthquakes, and mud slides, where would we all live?
Hey Boxer! My pets and I were able to evacuate. I had a couple of hours of total panic when my car wouldn't start, but I eventually found someone to jump it. Luckily, I didn't have any family there, so 1) I didn't have to worry about what would happen to them, and 2) I actually had a place to evacuate to.
Although, the news has shown a few morons who chose not to evacuate, most of the people who stayed simply didn't have the means to get out of the city. A large number of the people in New Orleans don't own cars, and some that do certainly didn't have the money for the gas and hotel bill that comes with evacuating. Also, the city was out of gas on Saturday afternoon, so others had the car and the money but no gas to power the car. The news on Saturday evening showed people crying because they couldn't find any place to buy gas.
At last an interesting topic that isn't bashing some breed! thank you SOOO much Scout! I just visited New Orleans about 3 weeks ago. I took a group of mentally retarded and physically challenged adults on their first ever vacation. We had the greatest time. The people of New Orleans were so kind and helpful, they bent over backwards to help us have a great time. My heart broke while watching the news. I am from Florida originally and can tell you that evacuating can be costly. Many people stay because they can't afford to go. Some things that stand out to me about this is, 1. I think we have become so urbanized as a culture, to think several generations back our anscesters built this country from the ground up and we today sit in domes and on bridges waiting to be rescued. I'm confused as to why at least the healthy ones didn't start walking out. 2. They have predicted the hurricanes to continue to be massive for 10 years in this cycle, I think this is year 2 and its been worse than last year. Weve drained the everglades and the swamps to live where we want to live. As a result weve lost wildlife and aligators in Fl are showing up sterile. I think mother nature is having the last laugh. Whether or not New Orleans should rebuild. I feel sure they will though perhaps on a small scale to begin with. But if the next few years continue as the last few I think we will get our wetlands and everglades back. And many fewer people will want to live there. I too always wanted to go to mardi gras!
Protdog - "Although, the news has shown a few morons who chose not to evacuate, most of the people who stayed simply didn't have the means to get out of the city. A large number of the people in New Orleans don't own cars, and some that do certainly didn't have the money for the gas and hotel bill that comes with evacuating. Also, the city was out of gas on Saturday afternoon, so others had the car and the money but no gas to power the car. The news on Saturday evening showed people crying because they couldn't find any place to buy gas."
But I thought that it was just a bunch of stubborn morons that are staying behind? It's strange that proto basically said what I figured out without living there. Perhaps people can think about how they would feel if their lives were suddenly COMPLETELY wiped out. No job, No house, no posessions, in many cases lost loved ones. Not to mention sickness. Now imagine that you are 80 years old in this situation. Makes me look at my life in a whole different way.
Very good posts Proto, I am glad to hear you made it out ok. I for one think NO needs to be rebuilt. Look into the sea walls constructed after the Cat 4 hurricane that hit Galveston.
It's human nature to rebuild that which gets destroyed. And it's american to spit in the eye of mother nature. Think about some of the bad situations we have put ourselves in by living in extreme areas. And don't forget just how much of the Eastern Seaboard is HIGHLY populated. If there were ever an Atlantic Tsunami, it would practically erase alot of states.
Im from Baton Rouge and eventhough I dont live there anymore I grew up in cajun country and I too know and agree that the culture, the people and the history in the city of New Orleans is so great the they will be back. I agree that it will be months before people can return and by then alot will have made new homes in different areas. I know Baton Rouge is taking a toll by taking in hundreds of thousands of people. The traffic is now 4 x's as bad, you cant go out to eat for the lines etc. I think Baton Rouge being the closest larges city (45 miles from New Orleans) it took in the people who were able to evacuate. Baton Rouge has rented everything that is available and the prices of homes have skyrocketed since Katrina. Its a shame that such a wonderfull city like Baton Rouge is also taking a toll in a different way. I have read that alot of major corporations are moving their headquartes to Baton Rouge and buying housing for their employees. Thats all nice and dandy but Baton Rouge now being the BIGGEST city in Louisiana is taking a hit from all this. I have family there and for their sake, I do hope New Orleans gets the funds they have been asking for to build the type of retaining wall the levy needs and lets their people go home. Thats where their roots are thats where their culture is and where HOME is. There is no place like New Orleans...it must be re-built!!
I can't imagine NOT rebuilding New Orleans. There is no other place like it, for the culture and the history. But they should definately have stricter building codes, and a better plan for evacuation should it become necessary. (and evacuation should be REQUIRED in a situation such as this; not voluntary) And I'm assuming that is required for everyone there to have flood insurance. It not, it should be.
I just came back and looked at this thread, last time I saw it was early last night, I miss all the fun. I just had to tell you how funny it was when I read what the troll was saying. You guys are great! This is a very interesting topic and then there are a couple of laughs in there too. Perfect!
I saw a show and the guy said that if the wetlands aren't fixed the levies won't hold the water back. That bill has been on the table like another poster said for years. I would love to see it rebuilt but if the same thing is going possibly happen than I don't see the point in rebuliding. The whole thing is such a mess.
I just heard on the tv that Barbara Bush went to the dome in Houston and stated that: these people were so poor that they are better off here in Houston, that the dome was a upgrade to the conditions they lived in. I don't know the exact quote but it was along those lines. what in the he** was she thinking saying something like that? It sure seems like something more could have been done so those people stuck on that bridge for 4 days without food and water could have been helped. I also saw that at the airport they have set up a hospital and morgue and the people that are so sick and will die for sure are put right in the morgue with the dead people to die.( was on Oprah). Oprah finally was able to get into the dome to see the mess but they didn't want her to go in because of the dead bodies and dogs running loose. This is not ok and I think we better get some of our troops home here and sort out our own mess if thats what it takes.
i dont think it is so much a question of not rebuilding it just because it is vulnerable to hurricanes. i think the fact that it is below sea level and the city has to continually have pumps going to keep the city dry is more the issue. it doesnt make sense to me to rebuild below sea level in the first place, but then to rebuild in the same area having just been proved to what a dangerous situation you are in, definitely doesnt make sense.
as far as culture goes. culture is in the people. it is what they bring to an area. as long as all the people weren't wiped out the culture can still be kept alive.
i think the people who lived there took a chance and have been lucky until now. if you build at the bottom of a volcano, you take the risk of having that volcano erupt and you losing your possessions, same as if you build on a fault line, or next to a river. there are risks and just because it hasnt happened yet does not mean it wont.
its not an easy thing to think about. but it is something that needs to be met with a certain amount of reality.
I don't understand all the people saying "rebuild it!" anyhow.
How can you rebuild all that history and culture? To rebuild It doesn't make sense. The things that make it what it is, are essentially DESTROYED.
Yes culture is in the people, it is also in New Orleans. New Orleans is not "there" anymore. I don't think alot of it's residents want to go back. I think they are trying to make the best of what has happened and start a new life. These poor people lost everything and have to depend on other people to SURVIVE. Can you imagine what that would do to someone?
Have you guys seen the superdome? that alone would be a time consuming task to "rebuild" it's trashed the infostructure is destroyed.
Yeah they can save a brick here or a piece of something else there and can CREATE the feel of old historic buildings... but, in my opinion and I'm sure many other people it's just not the same. It wouldn't give off the same vibe. It's going to be a place of saddness, sorrow and pity and I'm sure people wouldn't want it to be remembered for all of eternity for those things.
The place is a tomb now. I wouldn't want to live in a cloned version of a ghostly tomb.
I wouldn't call the people "morons" or whatever they were called above. Alot of them thought it was a bunch of hype like "Ivan" so they would be able to stick it out. I don't think anyone has ever seen this size hurricane before or even imagined what it was capable of, alot of them were elderly, alot of them had no place to go.......and some of them could not imagine standing the thought of leaving their beloved pets behind to fend for themselves and die horrible deaths. Some of them were a combination of all of these things. It is hard to just pack up and leave your life behind especially when you don't know any different and your not sure how to go go about doing it.
I do however wonder how come they told them to go places and they got there and there was no order, no authority, no food or water for 4 or 5 days. The people who neglected those things are who out of this tragic event that I would call the "morons".
The other "morons" are the people who knew the levee wouldn't with stand a hurricane this big but did nothing to make sure it would be reenforced. Even if there was a POSSIBILITY of this happening why did they hesitate? They knew what the levee was capable of they knew about what happened the last huge one they had that however many years ago it may have been, when it flooded. And they knew this one was bigger and nastier. They should have protected this place and it's people.
***Edited By: pope1982 on 9/7/2005 1:29:34 PM*** Reason: ...
How about the TOXIC water.. being pumped out of the city... and into...~~ ??? .....and from there is needs to pumped into the Gulf.... is it going to be filtered?
Plus the dirt itself is contaminated…so what of the plant life? Growing vegetables or grazing farm life …,
the below ground storage tanks.. contaminated / ruined…, the fresh water pipes are contaminated – this they are saying may be contaminated for years,…. On and on…
It as if a whole new city from scratch needs to be built ON Toxic ground . Has The “US” ever taken on such a large scale Project …. And the phenomenal cost!!! >> PLUS the risk of it happening AGAIN…. Because it is Below Sea Level and a bowl shape….
9/11 was only 10 square city blocks…. And that’s not even rebuilt yet…. !
I heard that A BILLION Dollars a day IS being spent Right Now...
also heard that the owner of Exxon makes 32 TRillion Dollars every quarter.
***Edited By: IVYdragonn on 9/7/2005 1:53:40 PM*** Reason: crt