I have to say that now I realize why you people do not approve of others purchasing poo mixes/ designer mutts. Most if not all designer mutts come from puppymills. I just saw pictures of these puppymills and I almost had a stroke. I do still think that these poo mixes are adorable and people should adopt them if they choose to. The key word is adopt. I just searched the web and there are numerous rescue groups who have many designer mutts in foster care. They even have little babies for all of you who like puppies. You can also go to petfindfer.com and they do have many cute little designer mutts as well as purebred dogs available for adoption. YOU WILL BE SAVING A LIFE VERSUS SUPPORTING PUPPYMILLS. FYI the most expensive fee I have seen is $300,00 , which is not bad at all considering most designer mutts in my area sell for no less than $500.00
I would just like to say that after visiting petfinder.com, I have since become a foster mom to a wonderful little doggy who was to be put down.
Before you purchase a pet maybe you should consider fostering unwanted dogs from your local pound or rescue group. You will be saving lives and it will help you decide which breed you want. Who knows you might actually find your baby in one of these shelters.
Exactly, I agree. I support owning a mixed breed, heck I have a few myself that were rescues. I dont support the intentional breeding of mixed breeds, those who do it on purpose are only doing it for the money, to keep up with the high demand for designer mutts
On the other hand just remember that for ev ery byb or puppymill that sells designer puppies there are 4 or more other byb/ puppymills who profit from the selling of purebred dogs. If you check your local newspaper at any given day you will see a list of at least 100 people selling dogs and most are purebred. How many of those people do you really think are legitimate and reputable breeders. Out of curiousity I called several of these so-called breeders and inquired about their puppies. I asked about their health guarantee --- most if not all said they only guarantee the health of the animal for 48 hours. The rest of them did not have any health guarantees. When asked about genetic testing some of them did not even know what I was talking about. and some thought I was nuts. I also checked out some of the reputable breeders listed here on this website and most of their dogs cost a an arm and a leg. So I don't really know what a buyer should do.
I guess we should just all check the pound every so often. I see no other choice.
If you buy from a puppymill or pet store people get mad. If you don't buy from a pet store you need at least 1,000 dollars to purchase a purebred dog from a reputable breeder. I guess the times when a middle income family can get a good puppy is gone. I guess the best choice for families who don't have an extra thousand dollars to buy a dog is to go to the pound. I think everyone should be hard on all byb and puppymills regardless of what kind of puppies they sell.
Actually, we do have purebreds, we show, we do the health testing, we give a health and genetic health guarantee, lifetime support, etc. All the things people say they want in a breeder. We do not charge $1,000 for a puppy, we keep our prices reasonable, cheaper than most any designer mutt ad, and much lower then the high priced puppymill pups at the pet store. Even with all the guarantees, testing, etc. You would be surprised at all the people who tell us it's more than they planned on spending. I wonder how many of these people then went to the pet store, BYB, or paid an arm and a leg for a designer dog?
I do agree that good breeders spend tons of money on testing, good food, vet bills etc -- no question about it. If you charge less than $1,000 for your puppies then you are a rarity. I am not saying that the price is not justified -- it's just too much for a lot of folks. Some people just want a pet. In my area designer mutts don't cost over $400.00. Now in other areas it might be a totally different story. I guess I can see why people buy from puppymills. I guess if a person considers buying a dog from a puppymill or pet store we should show them pictures of puppymills so they can see what kind of conditions these dogs live in -- maybe they will take their butts to the pound instead. How much do you charge for your dogs?
I feel very strongly about puppy mills. I think it is horrible how some dogs are kept. I however might be classified as a back yard breeder. not sure about that definition but I have a back yard and I have dogs that I do breed. The difference here is that I do tons of research on my breeds. They are kept in clean surroundings and are most of the time in with me and my kids playing and licking my boys faces. They are utd on all shots and wormings and very well socialized. My husband says I treat them better than he's ever known. I think some byb get a bad rap even when they are even better than some "breeders". I have visited several breeders and left very upset for the lack of love and concern for the dogs. They were very unsociable and barked because of not having the love and attention they needed. Most pet stores sell dogs that come from byb or puppymills so I think everyone should be careful when purchasing a puppy from anywhere. Most people selling puppies should inform you of all information needed and should answer any questions with knowledge of the breed. I breed chinese shar pei and shih tzus strictly because I love the breed and I have them around all of my family every day. I spend more money and time on my pets than I get in return but do it because i love them. I didn't mean to go on and on but sometimes back yard breeders are given a bad rap. It's an individual based thing so always do your research :)
I breed and have a backyard also. It sounds as though you care very much for your pets. It is not enough to be UTD on shots and worming. Besides knowing the breed, you need to know and understand the genetic defects associated with your breed, and do all the testing to prevent these defects being passed on. We dont believe in kenneling, all of ours are raised in the home with us, sleep in our beds, lie on the couch with us, etc. We show our dogs, and breed to improve the breed, not just because we happen to have two dogs of the same breed. They should be an excellent example of the breed in structure, temperement, soundness, health, etc. Health and genetic guarantees, AKC papers, 5 generation pedigree should be given with each puppy sold. For starters.
I am just giving my opinion of what a good reputable breeder should do, I was not directing this toward anyone, as I dont know anyone personally and dont know what your practices are.
just curious, where do the "legitimate breeders" (the ones who should be breeding) breed their dogs? After all, the breeder I got my dog from had kennels in her side yard. I only paid 300. for him. Tried to rescue first but the rescues in my area don't return calls. Couldn't afford the dogs at the pet store. I'm very happy with my dog. The breeder that I purchased him from seemed knowledgeable to me. She insisted on limited registration. She said it was so I couldn't make Schnoodles! Oh well since her dogs were in the side yard at least I know it wasn't a BYB I guess a SYB. oh I forgot, health guarantee: 72 hours pedigree: will get from AKC, although the paper I am sending in does have like 2 generations. IMO there is a middle of the road here and it is possible to use your own judgement. Look around, if the puppies are being treated inhumanely. Call the police. If your not planning to show your dog, buy a pet quality pet.
***Edited By: thlynda on 9/11/2005 6:31:11 PM*** Reason: add
I think there is much to be said about improving the breed. I have learned a lot of lessons the hard way. Lost money in the process but money isn't what it should be about. I bought a shih tzu from a breeder and it was soo sad, every time you'd come up to pet her she would cower down and run. I've always known that breed to be the friendliest ever but obviously that dog hadn't been handled much. I do some good breeders as well. I love all pets though. I'm a sucker when it comes to strays as well. I don't think anyone should do any type of breeding or rescue if thier heart isn't it it. jmo.
I charge different prices for mine but 1000 is about average price except for the shih tzus I don't charge that much for them. I had one pei that had sooo many wrinkles that it made her eyes where she couldn't see and the vet I took her to told me to put her to sleep because she may not have eyes. I was so upset, I cried and cried then I took her to another vet and he fixed her eyes. It cost me some money but I didn't care. Now she is 8 months old and the prettiest thing you've ever seen. I've been told by many that she could be a show dog. I think anyone buying a dog should be able to spend the time and money that needs to be invested. It feels sooo worth it when they give those wonderful sloppy kisses :) can ya tell I love my doggies? :)
I just wish that people would leave breeding to the professionals. I am tired and frankly sick of hearing people give dumb reasons for breeding their dogs. The dumbest I heard was it was to teach their kids about giving life. I say get a book. Sorry for being so bitter but approximately 2 dozen dogs are put to sleep in my local shelter every week. This is too much. If you love the breed so much then let the professionals breed them. If you love dogs so much then volunteer your time or money to the shelter -- they will not refuse either one.
Actually, the thought of 'professional' breeders ... irritates me just a bit. The term professional breeder means that that is there profession. THat means that is the means by which they get money. That also means some will charge outrageous prices for only pet quality, or lesser, dogs. And all while charging those outrageous prices they will ignore any health checks because they are costly...and, of course, all of their dogs are healthy...*sarcasm* And because this is their profession,.. they sometimes breed multiple breeds and even mixed breeds! ANything that will make them money! They loose sight of what breeding is actually about=the love of the breed, love of each individual dog, love of the activities you partake in with your dog, and understanding and loving every aspect of each individual breed that one may breed.
Backyard Breeders are not just people who breed in their backyard! They can breed dogs in their family rooms, front yard, neighbors house or a Wal Mart parking lot.
BYBs are breeders who breed dogs with no concerns for HEALTH, TEMPERAMENT, or PHYSICAL AND MENTAL SOUNDESS. These people often have an array of reasons for breeding Fido. Excuses like 'Well, he's a great dog and we want puppies from him', 'I want to teach my kids about life', 'He's got great bloodlines', or 'I need the money' are all used by BACKYARD BREEDERS.
Whos a BYB? It's hard to say. Everyone who breeds their dogs likes to think they are the worlds greatest breeder, providing quality puppies to quality people. Guess what? These people are RARE and nearly IMPOSSIBLE to find, no matter what breed your interested in. If you skimp ANYWHERE in breeding your dog, you are a BYB. If you do not health test (Certifying Hips, Elbows, Eyes, Ears, and cardiac health. This does NOT mean simply taking your dog to a vet for a check up!), do not title your dog extensivly in Conformation shows (From a REPUTABLE registry, no CKC here), do not have your dog temperament tested, or you do not have your dog titled in a WORKING title (This might not apply to breeds like English Bulldogs and Chihuahuas), then you are a BYB. If you make a considerable PROFIT when breeding your dog, you are more than likely a BYB. If you breed more than one litter a year, you are more than likely a BYB. If you breed more than one type of dog, then you are no doubt a BYB.
Breeding dogs should be, and needs to be, done by RESPONSIBLE, ETHICAL, people only. End of story.
ALL dogs in Pet Stores come from PUPPY MILLS. What are they? LARGE SCALE BACKYARD BREEDERS.
Okay, I'm going to speak up here so that some people can get their noses out of the air a bit because I'm a bit annoyed...
If all of those things are necessary to be a good breeder and not a BYB then there are probably only about 10% of the breeders out there who are going to meet those criteria. If that were the case, and those were the only breeders they would have 10 times the demand for their dogs then there actually was available. They would charge thousands of dollars for one of their puppies, because they would have such an intense corner on the market that they could justify the price. It would take YEARS for a family to get a puppy.
My personal view - stop preaching about only getting a dog from the perfect breeder. Until those breeders that meet ALL those criteria can figure out how not to ask $700-1500 a dog it's not affordable for the average middle class family. Those breeders HAVE to ask that for a puppy because of what they put into them otherwise they may as well light a couple of hundred dollars bills on fire.
I feel people can be "professional" breeders. When you make the statement that breeding should not be a profession do you understand what it takes to raise a litter of puppies? So only Stay-at-home Mom's should be able to breed? Because the breeder has to make a living somehow and newborn puppies shouldn't only be a priority AFTER 5 PM. Who can tell their boss, "I'm having puppies - I need 8-12 weeks off of work". Who can afford to do that? I am in a unique situation where I also run a bookkeeping firm out of my home with my parents, so I can choose to work ar 2 AM while I'm sitting up with a Mom in labor. BUT when I have a puppy that needs to be bottle fed, every 2 hours, round the clock I can also take off work and choose to work 12-16 hours on my bookkeeping clients to make up for it later.
Breeding should NOT be a hobby!!! It's a full time job. I don't "Make a considerable profit" off my dogs. I usually barely manage to cover the expense of the litter, the expense of caring for the adults, and if I'm really lucky I might make some headway towards making a living and paying my own bills. I figured out once, that I make about .50 cents an hour on the average litter. My time is worth something too.
Do I meet all the criteria that was listed? NO. Are my dogs well cared for and their well being always the 1st priority - YES. Am I being responsible to the families that adopt my puppies by giving them a 2 year health guarantee, only breeding proven healthy lines, insuring the temperament of my breeding dogs is outstanding, and making sure they are an informed consumer by educating them about the breed and being willing to answer any and all questions for them? Yes. Do almost half of my adoptive famillies come back for a second puppy? YES. Do I encourage my families to feed a premium dog food and do I screen my homes thoroughly? Yes. In fact, I don't breed a litter unless I have 50-75% of the possible puppies spoken for by prescreened homes. I'm selling my puppies for 25-50% less than the average breeder who actively shows, has all of their health screening done, and only has one or two litters a year. In other words, I'm giving people on a lower income than Paris Hilton an option other than a Pet Store where they can get a healthy, well socialized puppy complete with a breeder who cares enough to help them at any time and even take the dog back if needed.
My personal opinion - most people who preach about what a good breeder should look like have either never breed a litter of puppies, never visited a true Puppy Mill or BYB, OR have never made less than $100,000 dollars a year. Lower income families should be allowed to have a great pet and they shouldn't have to pay an arm and a leg for it. The only people allowed to breed acceptably shouldn't have to be super wealthy. Maybe it would be time better spent telling people to consider what is most important to them from a breeder? Not what is important to those who have the money to spend $1000 on a dog.
FYI I am sorry tessa if you do not like the word professional. I guess you are unaware that professional has more than one meaning. Aside from meaning to engage in a given activity as a source of livelihood, professional also means having or showing great skill; expert. When I say leave the breeding to professionals I meant leave it to the experts.
Actually, the thought of 'professional' breeders ... irritates me just a bit. The term professional breeder means that that is there profession. THat means that is the means by which they get money. That also means some will charge outrageous prices for only pet quality, or lesser, dogs. And all while charging those outrageous prices they will ignore any health checks because they are costly...and, of course, all of their dogs are healthy...*sarcasm* And because this is their profession,.. they sometimes breed multiple breeds and even mixed breeds! ANything that will make them money! They loose sight of what breeding is actually about=the love of the breed, love of each individual dog, love of the activities you partake in with your dog, and understanding and loving every aspect of each individual breed that one may breed. "
I fear that you think me to be some opinionated, closed minded, rich snob. I am far from that.
Most of what I had said above is very true. I am actually emailing one of those 'professional' breeders as we speak(or type). She doesn't do any health tests because all of her dogs are 'heathy'. They are too expensive and a waste of money to her, because she is an outstanding breeder and always procudes healthy puppies. She doesn't compete in any activities such as obedience, agility, or conformation. None of her dogs are CGC or TDI certified. She also breeds mixed breeds--anything that will sell for some money. She, herself, told me that she was a proud professional breeder.
All the "professional breeders" I have ever spoken to are similar to this person. They care more about the money, although most that I have spoken to do breed conformation bred purebreds. They have a very big selection of breeding stock, and most have little training as far as obedeince, agility, or any sport. They are kept in good housing with heating and cooling, and overall the breeders love their dogs and try to take good care of them....
"ANything that will make them money! They loose sight of what breeding is actually about=the love of the breed, love of each individual dog, love of the activities you partake in with your dog, and understanding and loving every aspect of each individual breed that one may breed. "
Now, does that mean ALL professional breeders are bad? No. I may not totally agree with them,... but their dogs are well taken care of.
From my experience, hobby breeders have always seemed better. Most I have spoken to show in many different sports like conformation, agility, obedience, and sometimes even hunting/herding/lurcoursing! They love their breeds and understand the genetics of breeding. They know each dogs faults and will carefully select the breeding pair, etc., etc., etc.