I had recently adopted a 5 day old baby goat and kept him in a dog crate at night with newspapers and a blanket in the house and bottlefed him every 4 hours, he was incredibly tame and followed me everywhere, I became very attached to him and began doing research on how to best raise and rear a goat. He was one of 3 but mum was neglecting him and the farmer wanted to "knock him on the head" but the neighbour offered to take him home and then called me to see if I was prepared to take him on. I have been quite sick on Tuesday evening with vomiting and all so yesterday I felt quite weak but I know that this is no excuse. I had him in the lounge room with me whilst I was cleaning the floor and my floor cleaning machine was playing up so I took my mind off Cocoa (the goat) for only 20 seconds in all and when I turned around he was gone; he had been dragged about 100 metres and attacked. I quickly grabbed him and took him to the local vet only 6 kms away (2.5 miles), the vet wasn't in but arrived about 40 mins later and then phoned me to say that there was no way to save the goat as it had its spinal cord severed and was a paraplegic, he suggested that the only humane thing to do was to put him to sleep...I reluctantly agreed. I cannot tell you how empty I feel, I miss him terribly and have noone to blame but myself, I should have known better than to take my mind off him even for 1 second let alone 20. My jack russell, Hunter, has a strong prey drive and would kill a smaller dog if given the opportunity so I always make sure that he is separated from the others when I go out. The vet says that the dog is a hunting dog and cannot be blamed to which I kinda agree. My neighbour says that they would put him down...I was wondering what you would do under these circumstances??? I can't really blame Hunter, I should have known better and it is entirely my fault that Cocoa is gone....he was a special little boy and only cried when he wanted a feed, he was my little shadow....I am hurting so badly.
Hello ~Ruby~ I'm terribly saddened by your loss! :(
I also own a smooth coat JRT who's only 9 weeks old. I have read that they do have a strong hunting drive. However I've also read that they're fearless, happy and very loyal to it's owner. Is it possible that your JRT could've been jealous of the baby goat?
Personally I disagree with your neighbours opinion. Question is do you kill a dog because of a human error made on our part as a pet owner? Perhaps this lamb was simply not meant to be? Life can certainly move in strange cirlces at times!
***Edited By: irishgirl on 5/31/2006 10:52:03 PM*** Reason: added script
I tend to agree with you; I don't think putting the jack russell down is the right thing to do; I knew better and it is human error after all. The neighbour thinks that once a dog gets the taste of blood they just wont stop but that is just old wives tale to me, there is always that 1st time and they don't need an acquired taste for it as it tends to be inbuilt in the dog, some are just worse than others. I will be watching him with hawkeyes from now on but it was a bitter lesson for me and will never forget little Cocoa, I keep playing that scene back in my mind and how I wish I could go back and not have him in the lounge room with me, if only I had put him back in his crate...
Well, killing a baby goat is one thing (some of my dogs have killed cats and chickens before), but it is another that you think your dog would kill other dogs too. For me, that is too aggressive. I really don't know what I would do, but I would be thinking that he doesn't have too many more chances before I started thinking about euthanizing.
~Ruby~ Whatever you do... don't blame yourself! Life is simply too short! :) As for JRT's killing cats and chickens. Some friends of mine are owners of JRT's. Their dogs have been known to bring down a badger and a fox. I would imagine that a baby goat is roughly the same size.
My mother in law had a very simlar incidence to yours. She left the house and forgot to put Lady her JRT in the other room. When she came home her parrot was no more. She understood that it wasn't lady's fault. She didn't put her dog down and never since has another occurance happened.
JRT's are GUARD dogs... not ATTACK dogs. However their hunting instinct is very strong. Big difference!
Irishgirl- My dogs that killed a cat and some chickens are boxers. Any breed of dog 'can' kill another smaller animal, and it is understandable. I just don't agree with ANY type of dog being so aggressive towards other animals that it would kill another dog.
I even have other female boxers who are notorious for being aggressive towards other female dogs. Yes, my girls might fight and attack another dog in dominance and for 'pecking order', but I have never thought one was going to literally kill another dog-- or I would get rid of the aggressor dog with out hesitiation. To me it is not acceptable for any dog to kill one of it's own kind (another dog, regardless of breed).
5 years ago, my husband had a Chessapeake Bay Retriever-- for hunting, but really I don't even know if he hunted with her 'for real'. One of my pugs dug under the fence in to a field we had the Chessy and a few boxers in. The Chessy killed my pug by the time I could even run out side. I insisted that the Chessy leave that day.
There are some offenses you can't excuse. Like I said in my other post, I'm not that concerned about killing other small animals, that is what dogs do. The fact that she worries about other dogs around this dog, isn't right. JMO.
there isn't that much diffrence between killing a chicken or goat or any other animals. If a dog is other animal aggressive I don't trust it around ANY other animal.There are many breeds you don't put together.
My husky and corgi would fight to the death,should I put them down?! good god.
Anyway-try not to feel to bad,you tried to help and I never would have guessed a jrt to even take down a baby pygmy.
***Edited By: joce on 6/1/2006 8:22:00 AM*** Reason: v
I'm sorry about your goat, but no I wouldn't pts the dog. It's a lesson learned and not the dogs fault. I own 2 APBT ,one extremely dog aggressive to dogs she doesn't know ,and if given the chance she would try to kill.She falls to the total idiot level.Some one else most likely would have pts for her being so extreme. I understand her and she lives a life of comfort and harmony with Piper and my 3 cats.Now Piper on the other hand is the oppisite of Tigger ,she's calm and does get along with other dogs.Dogs will be dogs ,and it's not their fault for their actions ,it's instinct.
I live on a farm. I have goats. Chickens. Horses and Sheep. I am also a dog trainer and I have many, many dogs.
Farmer Rule #1 - "Dogs will not attack the animals". and when they do they are in deep, deep trouble.
I know many, many, many farmers who simply shoot dogs that attack livestalk. I, however, do not believe in guns.
If you are going to keep a dog that kills as wildly as your Hunter is (funny that his name is Hunter), you are well advised never to own baby animals. If you want to keep him, you should hire a dog trainer that works with dogs who have livestalk issues.
I have a close friend who uses his JRT to keep racoons out of the chicken barn. He tried the dog to leave the chickens alone, but it will attack racoons and foxes.
I think it is a mistake to simple give up and say your dog cannot be modified a little. And hay, I own a Greyhound that has learned to love my Rabbits.
Puppywishes, I have to disagree with you about the farmer rule:
"Farmer Rule #1 - "Dogs will not attack the animals". and when they do they are in deep, deep trouble."
I have sibes and also have dairy cattle and cats in the barn. I know that my dogs have high prey instinct and I know the risks of having them around my livestock and yet I do EVERYTHING in my power to keep them seperated.
If you want dogs and you have a farm or a goat (whatever kind of animals) and are too lazy or ignorant to keep them apart from eachother, then maybe the dogs should be "farm friendly". By Farm Friendly I mean herding dogs, or ones that are bred to protect livestock, not kill them. Or maybe you should just have the livestock or just have the dogs, not both. This shows major irresponsibility!!
To the OP, I am not calling you lazy or ignorant, just making a point to the others. And sorry to hear about your goat kid. DO NOT put the JRT to sleep because of it killing the goat, it is a prey animal not a dog that would get along well with goats, period! Not its fault!
Sorry, farmers are not gun totting idiots who shoot everything. If someone elses dog out of our control goes after livestock it gets shot. But if its under our control its our fault so shouldn't a perosn be beating themselves with the gun?
I have a husky who will eat any animal and you know what we do? We keep her away from them. Shocking I know.
The dog may be a bad representatinon of the breed but thats no reaosn to put it to sleep. As long as its not a breeding dog there isn't a problem as long as you can keep it from going after anything else.
I think maybe a behaviorist is in order here. I dont think PTS is the answer. JRT's have high prey drive to start with, and these breeds need to be understood and have to know how to be trained, not for the novice. I think he needs to not be around other animals at this point, not let out to run without a watchful eye, and let a behaviorist evaluate and work with him.
Has he done anything specific to make you think he would kill another dog? It may be in his best interest to be an only pet.
I dont' think that any hunting dog should be put to sleep for anything like that. That's like putting a beagle to sleep for killing a rabbit, or a border collie to sleep for trying to herd. Its in their blood.
I dont even think that the dog should see a behaviorist. I completely don't see the point of taking a dog of a breed that is specifically bred to hunt animals up to fox size to a behaviorist or trainer when it has done all along what it was bred to do, what it is preprogrammed by generations of breeding to do. I'd say a 5 day old goat comes pretty close to the size of a fox.
Jack Russell terriers in particular have very very strong prey drive. This is one of the downsides (or upsides, depending on your perspective) of the breed, along with insanely high energy.
I am so sorry about your goat. It could've happened with any kind of dog. I had a friends Husky kill one of my cats several years ago and he was a therapy dog. You just never know what can happen. Don't blame yourself.
My retired standardbred, Beau, hated dogs. He came to us that way. His neck would be outstretched and ready to bite if they came by. Our dogs didnt mess with him.
Our goat would fuzz up and get all trancy and if they tried to mess with her they would get headbutted.
Our dogs coexisted with the barn cats....I dont remember them EVER chasing the cats, ever. The dogs would lay down and the cats would pile on. We had a collie mix and a rottie.
They all learned to respect each other, in one form or another...BUT....
Max, our collie mix suprised us one day, when we were delievering a guinea pig baby to the next door neighbor....Our dog followed the kids everywhere, no leash ever required....he was the kind of dog that movies are made over......older son put the box down to ring the doorbell and Max reached in the box, grabbed the guinea pig and shook it!
Jeffrey was looking down the the shaking guinea pig and his best friend answered the door and Jeffrey blurted out..uh....
"we have more at home, do you want a different one?" (his friend really liked that one but he ended up getting a different one)
I know its not funny, cause I love guinea pigs, but it still kinda makes me giggle. Max saw his chance and he didnt like rodents.
ANd that was a good thing, as we had rats and mice in the barn sometimes!
I dont think the JRT should be pts at all. We just dont know what animal will trigger that drive with them. The dog didnt bite a human and the lesson, albeit hard, was learned.
Thanks everyone for your advice. I won't have Hunter put down although the neighbours who gave me the goat insist that he should be destroyed, they even picked up a garden pick and said that they would hit him with it, I was shocked. As the majority of you have said, it's pointless to expect a jack russell not to hunt as that is what they were bred for. I wouldn't trust him with smaller dogs but this hasn't been difficult for me as I always separate him from the others when I go out. I was angry with Hunter when this happened but I should not have taken my eyes off little Cocoa for 1 second, let alone 20!!! It's all my fault and it's a very bitter lesson that I have had to learn and one that should never have been necessary. I keep looking at the photos that I had taken of Cocoa following my boxer around and it hurts so much, if only I could go back in time. I have asked the neighbours to keep their eyes open for another baby goat that may need to be handraised and this time I wont take my eyes off him for 1/2 second. Thank you all, you have all been great xxxx