Purebreds to me are a different story because they have been bred over hundreds of years to create those breeds which we have today. Mix breeders simply take two great breeds in and of themselves and put them together to make a random mix for no obvious reason other than to create a "hypoallergenic dog" (or make money off of a fad) even though there are many purebreds that do not aggravate allergies. THe purpose for a good, purebred dog is to know in advance what you are getting and to be prepared if you do not have the lifestyle that can accomodate a troubled dog. At this point in the breeding process, no two of these designer mutts are the same because they are so randomly bred, which leads in turn, to the same issues you get with any rescue dog. Although I own one dog from a breeder, I have turned my back on them and the choice to buy from them. I believe the only reason to buy from a breeder is to have a show dog or if you are getting a stronger breed that needs to be raised from a puppy. (please, watch the video from the link in my sig. to understand what I mean). *xoxo, FrostyGirl* Thinking of breeding? Go to: http://justonelitter.com/litter.html
I cannot possibly argue with you for turning your back on breeders and only adopting from a shelter! That is commendable. But if you do not agree with choosing a mixed puppy from a breeder versus a shelter, then you shouldn't agree with buying a purebred from a breeder versus a shelter. Either one has the same consequences in that a shelter dog misses out on adoption. Shelters have purebreds too. My only argument is, if you feel strongly about this, why only pick on the people who bought a mixed breed from a breeder, and not the people who buy purebreds from a breeder?
That was the point I was making in my post, I do not agree with any breeding or buying unless under certain circumstances. It has become more like a battle of shelters and purebreds than balance and harmony. I personally believe that instead of encouraging breeding (which also encourages puppy mills and BYBs in turn), the AKC should help shelters. They should donate some of that money they have to people who want to help animals. And the shelters should help breeders find homes for their puppies. What matters more than anything is the health and safety of the dogs, whether they come from show lines or they are a street mixed mutt. *xoxo, FrostyGirl* Thinking of breeding? Go to: http://justonelitter.com/litter.html
FrostyGirl, Now that I can agree with. I think the breeders should help the shelters, and the other way around, for the good of the dogs. That is what's important. If the breeder is reputable, it wouldn't matter whether that breeder bred pure or mixed dogs. All that really matters is the cooperation with the shelters to try help fix the problem. I read "Just one litter" yesterday. It was powerful! Although I'm sure you are unhappy that I am going to a breeder for my cockapoo, rest assured that, like every other dog I have ever owned, My Zoe will be spayed!
Unless we are firm lovers of a particular purebred, maybe some of us purchase our dogs from either a shelter; a petstore (purebred or, as you call them "designer mutts"); from a breeder; or take in a stray..... just because we like or care for the dog. Anyway you look at it - the buyer is taking a dog into their home and giving it love, care and safety. We are helping the overpopulation either way - purebred or mutt. Some of us don't look at these ANIMALS as a designer product, but just a cute family pet. Maybe we don't have the money for an expensive purebred; maybe we have so much money - we just buy what we like or want. (I'm not in either category.... I just love my dog.) If good breeders feel as the majority of you in these posts.... then maybe they should slow down on breeding so many animals too. I have only been on this site a couple of times to try to get information on training and raising my new puppy. The replies I have received have been either... nothing at all; or criticism. If each of us has obtained an animal (from wherever), each of us has taken these dogs "off the streets" so to speak. Maybe those of you who feel so strongly, should contact your legislators (either by yourself or as a group) and get them on the stick to do something about the puppy mills. In the meantime, if we each take a dog or two -- love and care for them we can resolve for a few. I've been to a few websites pertaining to children who don't have homes either. The people on this site should visit some of those sites to see what's happening to kids. It is shameful. There are lots of them who have no homes either. I'm very proud of my son - they have adopted 3 homeless kids! One is caucasion, age 3 1/2. Two are mixed races (in your words .... mutts) 13 and 5. They are just as loveable as the single race child. We individually can't do anything about dogs or kids - purebreds or mutts. Maybe if we want to criticize or namecall, we should look at what we are doing individually to stop the problem. I took in a puppy - love and care for him. I don't feel I need to be criticized for this. I only have ONE dog.. but I did keep him from being tossed aside - purebred or mutt.
I want to put my two cents in here because I am a breeder for Goldendoodles. The person who continually calls them "MUTSS" and that "Designer dog breeders are in it for the money" has no idea what they are speaking about. Number one, I can't think of anyone who has ever gotten rich from breeding a dog. For every $5 we take in, I am spending $10...ie....we always spend twice as much as what is taken in and I do have a huge box of receipts to prove it. There are so many expenses, that the average joe-schmoe can not even fathom it. No matter what business a person operates, there are huge expenses and dogs are not inanimate objects that can be "shelved".....they are a living/breathing creature who has to have daily, non-stop attention and care. The amount of money we get from our customers for our puppies does not even pay ME to do all the work that has to be done...all the hours, the huge expenses......every dime helps...but after my expenses...I work for FREE. I can't think of anyone who would go to their job and pay their boss to have their job and then pay the expenses of operating their job. Designer dogs are NOT MUTTS. A mutt is a dog who is mixed with all sorts of different breeds...and frankly, there is nothing wrong with this type of dog...I personally love dogs no matter who or what they are....each will give back love unconditionally and will remain a loyal friend until the day it dies...the definition of a designer dog is the fact that they are two purebred dogs of different breeds. The person who wants to downgrade "mutts" and "mongrels" should get off their high horse and remember that every single dog on the face of this earth that has a "purebred" status, was only given this status by a kennel club (a group of people) who gave this "mixed breed dog" a purebred status and a name. Breeders mixed breeds together over many, many years to refine the breed and pushed for a "breed name" and got it recognized by a kennel club. Just because a breeder breeds two "purebred" dogs together does not give those puppies a sudden rank in status. Perhaps you should do yourself a favor and really do alot of research on dogs, in general...their history....all the breeds that were mixed together to get one name for a dog who was then given a "purebred name/status". In our case, our Goldendoodles have parents who have a very extensive OFA, Champion lineage of great heritage. One of my Goldendoodles has a very large, nice picture (with his owner) inside of the July 5th, 2004 issue of FORBES MAGAZINE, of which we are very proud. This same dog met, in person, Bruce Springstein and his wife, Patty in New York at an ice cream parlor and they went gago over him. It is not so much the "designer" aspect to the Goldendoodle that makes them so wonderful.....all poodle hybrids actually work out for many people who have or suffer from allergies. Some will still have problems because not all allergy sufferers suffer alike...but the majority of them work out great. The Poodle hybrid is extremely gentle...loving.....much calmer than some purebred dogs....they can have a longer life span (although there are many factors that play a role in any dogs' lifespan) and in general, they are just very good looking dogs that people are going nuts over. Personally, I am an allergy sufferer and I love my doodles for many other reasons, but I can work with my doodles and not have any allergic reactions or upper respiratory symptoms like I do with other dogs. When grooming some dogs, my lungs can literally start filling with fluid causing me to rush to my inhaler and machine that pumps liquid albuteral and combi-vent into my lungs immediately. That doesn't happen when I am washing and grooming my doodle puppies. Its okay to have your opinions that you believe your purebred dog is better and that the shelters are full of mixed breeds already......but I can tell you that any designer breeder who keeps their prices high will NEVER see their creations inside of a pet store or a shelter! If you have run across a designer dog in a shelter or pet shop, it was because the breeder had their price so low, the pet shops jumped at the chance to buy their entire litter for $150 or $250 per puppy and then they turned around and made a 300% profit. IF people pay little to nothing for their dogs, they have little to lose when they feel they do not want them any more and dump them at shelters. We always encourage people to rescue or adopt from a shelter if they can........but, it is a fact many dogs who wind up in shelters are sick or have behavioural problems...not all...but many. Our goldendoodles are registered hybrids and we can provide extensive pedigreed information that can date back to as far as the 1930s. Not many breeders go to that extreme in researching their own dogs....but I did and still do. So, that is my two cents on the designer dog. If you don't believe in them.....that is okay...but don't down breeders for having them. The purebred dog started out as a designer dog too!
I too am the owner of I guess what you all are calling a designer mutt. I wanted a cute fluffy puppy that looked like a maltese, westie or bichon. It could have been a purebred or not. I started to search for a Maltese after doing alot of reading on all the breeds. I investigated all the animal shelters in my area, surfed the internet for many months, and found my puppy. None of the animal shelters had a puppy like I wanted. I would have been more than happy to get a shelter puppy if they had what I wanted. I purchased a Maltese-Pomeranian mix from a breeder because he was adorable and very close looking to a Maltese and I fell in love with him. I did not purchase my "designer mutt" so I could tell every body I have a REGISTERED DESIGNER WHATEVER. And yes, I know that I can not register a mutt (as so many posters have mentioned) SO WHAT!! What is the big deal if a dog is registered or not. It's beginning to sound like a club for snots! I guess people buy these mixed puppies because they are cute. How about that? Everytime I go anywhere with my puppy I can barely get to where I'm going because so many people will stop me and want to hold, pet, cuddle and kiss my puppy because he is so sweet and cute. They all want to know what kind of dog he is and many people say they want a dog just like him. Just for pure pleasure and love. Not so they can say, well he/she is a blah blah blah and he/she has papers and is registered. Guess what, my mixed puppy has papers too- the ones he poops on.
"I guess people buy these mixed puppies because they are cute. How about that? Everytime I go anywhere with my puppy I can barely get to where I'm going because so many people will stop me and want to hold, pet, cuddle and kiss my puppy because he is so sweet and cute. " Well therein lies the danger and part of the issue. No one should EVER buy a puppy simply because it's cute. The decision to buy a dog should not be based on looks but rather personality and temperment. BTW, my dog is cute too and people have the same reaction to her..she's a Boston Terrier. So what? Having said that, as I've said before, I don't think most people on this site have an issue with mixed breeds per se, the concern is the type of person who is breeding them. Alot of BYBs and puppymills are pumping these cute fluffy dogs out because people think they are 'cute'. And it is unfortunate since there are so many cute fluffy homeless dogs already out there in shelters. And yes, purebreds are in shelters too but most of them will be adopted first or pulled by a rescue group. I do Boston Terrier rescue and if one pops up in a shelter, we grab it. Who's going to save the random mutts? If they are VERY lucky, perhaps a mixed breed rescue group. But for every Boston that turns up in a shelter, there are hundreds of 'mutts'. As for not finding cute fluffy dogs..perhaps in certain areas it is difficult to find such a mix in shelters or rescues, but I assure you that is not an issue here in Houston. Our local shih tzu/lhasa rescue groups always has TONS of dogs..sometimes even purebred puppies pulled from puppymills. Now, let's say someone DOES want to get some kind shitzipoodledoodle thing from a breeder. Fine, but just make sure it's a good breeder. There aren't many reputable designer mix breeders, which is what causes most of the uproar around here. Most are coming from BYBs and puppymills. HOWEVER, there are some exceptions...the goldendoodle breeder above is a perfect example. I'd rather buy a designer mutt from a reputable breeder than a purbred from a puppymill. It's all about who I want to give my money to. Also, another concern for people is the fact that many of the less reputable breeders are claiming these designers dogs are a NEW breed, just about to be accepted into the AKC blah blah and many stupid people walk away thinking they just paid $1000 for a new purebred dog. Sad but true. Here is something I found on one goldendoodle website: "Hybrid vigor is only as good as the breeding stock used from the Purebred dogs." I'm so glad that there are some designer mutt breeders out there being honest about this. I am so tired of the claim that simply because a dog is a mix it is healthier. Bull, it's not going to be healthier if the breeding stock isn't. So always do your research and choose a breeder carefully, there are plenty of websites they will tell you what to look for. I know I'm rambling here, but these designer mutt threads always get a bit out of control and I think both sides begin missing the important issues. I just don't think breeding mixes is a black and white issue. Too many shades of grey, too many issues to consider. ETA: Wendy, I think the 'designer mutt' term became popular due to a CNN article, we did not come up with this. Do a search on designer mutts and you will see what I mean.
I take offense to the fact that these postings reflect that people who buy "designer mutts" are stupid. We are not stupid. I looked on the "net" at many, many sites before I obtained my dog. It was very clear to me that they are not registered - they are not purebreds. And the description of "cute" is not just a fluffy coat!!!!! Personality and temperment are all part of "cute". After all an adorable fluffy white dog bearing his teeth at me would not fit the bill as being cute. I would prefer having a great big Black Lab (my favorite), but I can't. Our condo association limits to a 20# dog. If you can find me a lab that meets that criteria - I'll be there in a minute. I looked at many, many before I purchased my dog. Each person who obtains a dog has a different objective. They are still taking those who are homeless and giving them love and attention. It's like I have said many times before...... This should be dealt with on the level of government, laws, enforcement....as a group. Us poor individuals are just taking one dog at a time and giving them a home.
mrama, Thanks for the insight on this. I admit I get ticked off when people are so opinionated about certain issues. FYI, I did look into the Maltese and Pomeranian behavior/personality before I purchased. I did alot of ground work before I decided what kind of dog I wanted. I originally started with a Jack Russell. (another controversial dog) I didn't just go for looks. I understand what you mean though, I'm sure some people do. I don't have a problem with purebreds. I was looking into purchasing a purebred. I get upset when certain posters will make statements like "you can't register a mutt". Will someone please explain to me what are the benefits of being registered? I know to some extent you can trace the lines from where your dog came from etc. and maybe be assured that he will be healthier than say a dog who came from a shelter. My puppy's personality is wonderful. I couldn't have asked for a sweeter dog. Did I just get lucky? I think that is why so many people love him. Yes, his looks attract them, but his sweet nature reels them in for the kill. I wouldn't want any other dog in the world. What's wrong with a breeder trying to recreate what I have?
Rudyluvr, I hear you. I too get offended at being referred to as stupid for having a Maltese/Pomeranian. My description of cute should have included good natured. My puppy happens to be very good natured as well as adorable. I guess I'm lucky. The breeder I purchased my puppy from did not advertise as "Designer Dogs". She advertised as Maltese Puppies for Sale. When I contacted her she said all she had left were Maltese/Pomeranian mixes and they were an accident. I researched some more about both breeds, went to take a look, fell in love and brought one home. I don't care if my baby is registered, or if he is a member of the AKC and is a recognized breed. I wouldn't trade him for anything. He is a good dog and I love him. End of story. I'm sure you feel the same way about yours.
Rudylver- I did not mean to imply that people in general who buy designer mutts are stupid...but I do think that anyone who buys one believing they are getting a purebred should have to wear a dunce cap. Wendy- While there isn't necessarily anything so wrong with wanting to recreate some wonderful mix, (other than the arguement of 'why create more') it's how it is done. It seems as though many of the designer mutt breeders are banking on 'hybrid vigor' (don't even get me started in THAT) to sell their dogs. They are not getting their dogs the proper health certifications that any reputable purebred breeder would (key word is REPUTABLE) and are using alot of sleazy marketing tactics to sell their dogs. But I have come across a few designer mutt breeders that do the proper health certification and take all necessary precautions who I can't find much fault with. I'd rather see someone breed two litters a year of healthy, cert tested poo mixes, than some BYB pumping out 10 litters a year of a purebred dog. For me it's mostly an issue of breeding practices. I think the main reason why there aren't as many reputable mix dog breeders is because there aren't any clubs or standards behind these 'designer mutts', it's more just someone throwing some cute dogs together to make another cute dog (without regard for health issues). Also, most reputable puredog breeders would not sell one of their dogs for breeding unless it was to another approved purebred breeder (any reputable breeder would sell with a spay/neuter contract). Like someone who takes breeding shih tzus seriously would not want their dogs to be used to create random mixes. So that makes me wonder where these mix breeders are getting their breeding stock from. Are they getting them from BYBs? And if so, that is not a breeding I care to support. But that's a whole other huge issue that's bigger than this thread. LOL. Although I do begin to wonder if that is changing. There seems to be quite a few 'fluffy dog' breeders that are taking their breeding practices very seriously. Sadly, the same cannot be said for certain designer breeds like 'puggles' or some of these mini versions of dogs (mini boxers, mini rottweilers). The petstores still seem to be the main suppliers. :(
mrama, Thanks again for the info. You seem to be one of the few with some real knowledge on here. I am new at all this dog stuff. I had dogs as a kid but they were a family pet, not really my very own, and we never had a puppy. Always a given dog or a stray(guess my parents were kind to take in strays). I didn't know much about breeders or what to look for. I happened to stumble upon the one I purchased my puppy from on the internet. Turns out she lived in my neighborhood (which I thought must be an omen) What were the chances of that? The more I have found out about all the bad things that breeders can do, I think the lady I purchased from must have been O.K. (I hope so) She didn't really mislead me into buying a "designer" or a "teacup size" puppy. She did advertise as just Maltese though. I wonder if that was a trick because she still charged me the same price she was asking for the Maltese. Like I said before, I am very happy with my puppy and would pay the same amount for him again, because I get so much love back from him. (I owe him) It's dissappointing to see that there is such a problem on this subject. I learn something new everyday. I just learned this week about the teacup scam.
I assure you it's not because I'm interested in buying a puppy. I do Boston Terrier rescue, if I wanted another dog, I could have my pick. To answer your question, she was saying she 'thought' her breeder was okay. I was curious to get a look at a website to see whether or not her breeder was someone I would consider reputable, or a BYB. No other reason than 'curiosity' since it is neither here nor there. Edited: Because Meh, I realize I did blast that person and wasn't clear, I was cranky about her blaming terrific pets..however I did respond later clarifying my feelings. Any other questions?
cockapoomommy, I completely agree with your decision to buy your pet from a breeder, and I also agree with your statements in which you pointed out that buying ANY type dog from a breeder means that one less dog is adopted from a shelter. I read that you'd tried to adopt from shelters for many months. I, too, tried and tried to find the right pet for my family in many, many shelters. I searched the entire state for months to find a puppy who would be 10 pounds or less. Many shelters simply said, "Good Luck! All we ever get are big dogs here." or..."Well..we had a litter turned in, but we promised them to our friends, so they were adopted immediately." I asked to be put on waiting list for a small puppy, and after 2 years, no one has contacted me. All of the dogs in my state which were listed on PetFinder were in serious need of medical attention or had warnings that they were incompatible with children, men, or other pets. The puppies who were seemingly available turned out to be adopted within hours of their being listed on the site. In the end, I bought a small mixed breed for the same reasons you did, cockapoomommy.
mrama, This is the post I read: "People who randomly purchase live animals off the internet (and don't take the time to research and find a reputable breeder) get no sympathy from me. Consider it a lesson learned. "
Yes, I just went and read that (couldn't remember what I wrote) and edited my post at the same time you were attempting to bash me. "In the end, I bought a small mixed breed for the same reasons you did" I guess you must have purchased online since you seem to be so sensitive about it.