Hey guys, I have posted a couple threads, trying to squeeze all the infomation I can out of you guys lol. What do you think would be a reasonable price on a pug puppy. I am only wanting a PET only, no showing the pup, or breeding the pup. Some breeders ask 2500 dollars vs 1500, and some are much cheaper around 400 to 800. Some say he has so many champions and blah blah what does that mean? That he won a bunch of shows? I also heard akc means the pup could of been bred with cousins to ensure better lines. Now I have no knowledge when it comes to breeding, or breeding for better lines, but have heard that breeding cousins can cause defects. Any info you guys have on this will help. I am trying to pay around 600 or less. Did find a reputable breeder who is willing to go to 600 usually she charges 800 due to her studs champion lines. lol I am like it's a dog, its not an endangered species. I do understand the pug breed is hard to whelp and for that I understand why some prices are high but 2500!!!!????
First off, you get what you pay for. YOu need to keep that in mind when you are buying anything especially a dog. If the price seems great, there's almost certainly some kind of catch and you are sacrificing quality at the sake of price. If you really want a 'cheap' pug, then find a pug rescue in your area and save an adult dog's life. But you are risking heartache paying for a 'cheap' pug that could have a multitude of health problems down the road.
Secondly, I'd never recommend anyone to pay a significant amount of money for a pug that didn't come with AKC registration papers unless it was registeredw ith the CAnadian Kennel Club instead. NOT the Continental Kennel club, not the APRI, the NKC, the universal kennel club, etc. Some breeders do linebreed (breeding distant relatives) and a few inbreed (breeding close relatives like father x daughter). But if you are worried about that you can ask for your potential pup's pedigree and it will show you what dogs are on it, so you can check to see if they are related or not related.
Find out what health testing if any is being done on breeding stock. According to the pugbreeders net, "Responsible Pug breeders today, in general, are testing for hip and elbow dysplasia, thyroid disease, genetic eye disease, normal cardiac function, and normal liver function."
Ask about health problems that have shown up when the breeders you're interested in have bred in tthe past. Ask if they offer a health guarantee against genetic defects of at least 2 years, and what would happen if your puppy suddenly came up with luxating patellas or a congenital eye defect. Would there be any recompensation for treatment or surgery?
Regarding champions in the blood lines, it means that the dogs in the pedigree have been shown in AKC shows to their champion title, and have been judged to be good exmaples of the breed, that are close to the 'ideal' image of what a pug should be. If the puppy's sire and dam are champions or have points toward their championship, it means that the breeder is doing their best to exhibit the dog and compare it to other dogs of the same breed to ensure that they too are great examples of what a pug is 'meant to be'.
You want a breeder that is breeding for mroe than "she's a great dog and we thought her puppies would be so cute, so we found some neighbors that had a male and voila!" Even if it means payinga little more for it. At least I hope you do. If you don't, and you get a $600 pug that has eye defects and luxating patellas that will cost hundreds of dollars to correct, and the breeder suddenly wants nothing to do with you, well.. you got what you paid for :P
SOMETIMES you can find a nice pup for a reasonable price. I think it's insane to pay over 1 thousand dollars for ANY dog for ANY reason. I know this is going to start a row with some of the higher priced breeders and that's ok...it's a matter of opinion. Since money is obviously a factor here, I would go look at some of the moderate priced pups. You say you don't need fancy bloodlines etc... That's usually what costs more, as it is expensive to show and promote cretain bloodlines. There are people who breed a certain breed for the love of it and don't have to make a lot of money. This is usually the moderate priced pup. They may not do a million genteic tests and if you're willing to look past that you can get a might fine pup this way. Also, check out some breeders that have my new favorite phrase, the LEFTOVER pup, a pup that for some reason wasn't sold, or found it's way back to the breeder. My best pup was sold last.
I don't know the price question but I wanted to second what Minniyar said.
You pay for what you get - and while sometimes those "cheaper" breeders do have nice puppies, they often don't have any testing done - and the bigger problem is that they probably bought their breeding dogs from another BYB or Puppymill. Where the problem lies is that they don't know or understand anything about the lines behind their dog. They don't know if the grandparents of their dogs all have heart problems. Etc...
I have a family on my waiting list for a puppy right now that bought a puppy 2 years agos from another breeder. They paid $300 (average good quality Sheltie is about $750) thinking "I just want a pet". Within the first 18 months of the dogs life they battled a parasite problem right off the bat that cost them $200 in vet bills to clear up. They found out she had allergies - and testing and medication probably came close to $500. They found out she had both elbow displaysia and luxating patellas and surgery to correct them both would have been close to $3000 and a lot of time off of work for them while she recovered one leg at a time. They opted at that point to put her down because she had temperament problems as well (probably linked to the elbow and knee problems and her discomfort). Their puppy came with a 1 year gaurantee that only covered hip displaysia and eye problems. Their breeder wanted nothing to do with them.
Save up, pay a little more, and get a pup with a good health guarantee from tested parents. It will save you heartache in the long run.
And truthfully, unless the parents or grandparents are Champions, breeders who talk about their pedigrees are blowing smoke out their rears. They are trying to make their pet quality dogs sound nicer. If they have to tell you how many champions are in their pedigree and just can't say "Champion Sired, or Champion Grandsired" the pedigree doesn't matter and the breeder is grasping at straws.
You pay for quality because breeders who show in conformation (with most breeds) have sound, healthy dogs. Conformation is as much about structure and physical soundness as it is being attractive. Those breeders who show are out verifying that their dogs are good quality and aren't just guessing that they are.
Breeding cousins/Linebreeding does not insure health issues. In fact, if the breeder knows the background of their line and the dog is from tested lines, Linebreeding is actually safer than breeding two unrelated dogs. But the key is that the breeder has to know their lines. Most BYB's/Puppymills don't have the foggiest idea. And being AKC doesn't mean they are linebred/inbred. A lot of AKC breeders outcross. I choose to both linebreed and outcross - with equal success. But I know what is behind my dogs and I'm confident in my lines. Linebreeding should not be done by a novice or uneducated breeder.
I am not worried too much about health problems, this breeder offers a healthy pet gurantee for genetic problems up to one year. Also the pup is AKC registered. I have a problem with inbreeding and why people charge thousands of dollars, I agree with schoolgal and just dont see the sense it paying that. 600 is enough and I am doing my research on the breeder DEFINATELY before I buy a pup, I am not just trying to find a cheap puppy, cause they do have them all the time in papers for like 400 which is very cheap for a pug, but 2500 is ridiculous. I am not just going by price, but how the puppy is raised, where its raised, and what training it has before leaving the breeder. I wouldn't post a question if I was just looking for something cheap.
I'm totally against pups & dogs being sold for anything over $900...and to me that's still high. And I don't want to hear the, "We did testing" bit. IMO, the "puppy market" is way out of control...pups being sold for $1500 and $2500....over my dead body.
The best dog I've ever had was free and a mutt. And why pay hundreds, upon thousands of dollars for a puppy/dog because it's "purebreed"...all a purebreed is is a mutt...because purebreeds were made by combing several different "breeds" until they got the look they wanted...for example: My Doberman...pure breed right...but how where they made, ...by combining rottweilers, and several other dogs until they got the "look" they wanted. And once they did then they breed two of the "end result" together and so forth.
People act like "purebreeds" are worthy of some higher price, but in actuality all they are are really well interbreed mutts. After all, they all come from wolves anyway.
And the prices of pups/dogs are our own fault....we pay the price that they ask for, which gives them grounds to keep selling them at that price.
I don't know but the inbreeding lines really bothers me. It just doesn't seem right that you breed say a father x daughter or even cousins. But dogs aren't humans, but it seems wrong. I don't really fully understand why breeders do this.
There are sooo many factors to consider whether you go with a cheaper pup or a more expensive one. Most of all is the breeder themselves. The quality of the dogs they breed, the health of the parents, if they show or do anything that indicates they are working to improve the breed. Many many breeders in our area sell their pups for large amounts, not that they are nice, or healthy just they know they can get it, so they charge it...thats wrong. We show and we sell our pets for less than the local BYB's and PM's around here....the Pugs are so out of standard that its sickening! But yet they get the higher dollar because Pugs are a higher demand breed. We sell for less, but is it because we are trying to compete with them...nope. We sell for what we find to be fair and reasonable for a pet puppy. We give the health guarantee (and by the way a one year guarnatee is crap...since most defects dont show up or can be fully tested for until 2 yrs...a one yr is nothing more than trying to look responsible without actually being responsible) Everything is done as where the others charging more, have dogs that are kept in cages outside, bred every heat, no champion pedigrees, any male to any female , do not even look like true Pug, no gurantees, and they get more.....we try to educate on what to look for, but we cant help everyone.
Bottom line just make sure to do your homework and be sure of what your getting, not just because it is cheaper....and at least 2 yrs on the gurantee...and see what they will do for you if something would come up.
i second and third and fourth what minniyar and lpn said. i couldn't afford $2500 for a dog myself. different parts of the country charge differently too; when i got my pug 3 1/2 years ago i paid $600. my breeder does show, and has a good health guarantee- much longer than one year- does the necessary testing. at that time pugs in, say, phoenix and near the east and west coasts were costing $1500. really think about rescue, if you can't find a good breeder for what you can afford. i agree that one year on health is nothing. most problems, such as knees and eyes, take much longer to show up. my little guy still acts like a puppy, with pugs they can be puppies for life, so you may not miss too much of puppy cuteness and antics. in the end the decision is yours, but get all the info you can.
You don't always get what you pay for, if you buy a pup from one of those online brokers and pay 2500 for a pup it will still be crap. If you are dealing with breeders then you do usually get what you pay for, a BYB usually has the cheapest pups but you have no idea weather they area healthy. I would call a few reputable breeders around your area and find out what they are charging and what they offer for the money.
Just for your info a 1 year health guarentee isn't really worth much since most of the really bad stuff doesn't show up until after about 2 years, personally I won't get a dog unles it has at least a 3 year, but preferably a 5 year health guarentee.
Poppyryce, just wanted to let you know that almost ALL champion dogs have line breeding or inbreeding. Usually its done by people who know what they are doing and when its done right it usually means that the good qualities in that bloodline are magnified. That's why it needs to be done by people who know what they are doing. Line breeding and inbreeding is not as bad as you think. Even in people-that's an old wive's tale, about being "your own grandpa"-and having a 3rd arm sticking out your back-(very corny). I even saw on Dr. Phil (LOL) where 2 cousins wanted to be married and one's sister was having a fit. Studies show that there is a less than 1% chance in over a million that there would be any birth defects in children from cousins. My champion bloodline male Boston has 90 champions in his dad's 6 generation pedigree, but only 27 different champion names. That means that more than 1/3 of his ancesters are related, inbred and line bred. I would visit some local breeders, and even check out some of the ones in your local paper. You don't have to buy one, just go look and get very familiar with the breders and the breed. Pugs are great little dogs. CeCe
A linebred dog that is linebred on healthy tested lines is going to be healthier than a dog that has no related dogs in it's pedigree from mediocre pet quality only lines. You breed two unrelated dogs with health problems in their background and your chances of get a health problem are MUCH higher than from a linebred dog with no, or very limited history of health problems.
And I agree that I would never pay $2500 for ANY dog (though in my breed $2500 would be outrageous). I paid $1500 for my show male out of exquisite lines - and I looked at the line for 3 reasons - 1) I loved their structure and look. Very well put together, very attractive, and the good qualities in the line are usually dominant and useful in cross faulting with. 2.) The line is known to be very healthy, almost every dog in the pedigree is OFA tested and CERF cleared as well as being Thyroid normal and Von Willebrands clear. 3.) I LOVE the temperament of the line. And truthfully, #3 was the biggest reason I wanted a dog from the line. If I ever quit breeding and just wanted a pet, I'd go back to the same breeder and get a companion puppy.
And I second that a 1 year health guarantee is just a breeder's way of LOOKING responsible without being responsible. Breeders only offer 1 year guarantees for 2 reasons - everyone else in their market range does, or they know they line has health problems and they don't want to have to stand behind their dogs. VERY rarely do things like luxating patellas, elbow displaysia, and hip displaysia show up before 1 year because they don't show up until the dog is done growing and maturing. All you're going to see before 1 year is some really major fluke problems. (usually) You really need a 2 year guarantee at minimum and any breeder worth anything offers one - unless they KNOW they are going to have to use their guarantee a lot because they have dogs producing puppies with defects.
Usually, good quality breeders who show, or compete in some kind of dog sports (obedience, ect...) don't ask outrageous prices for companion puppies if they aren't in it for the money alone. You should be able to find a nice pet puppy from a good breeder for a price that doesn't make you want to throw up.
Have you tried going through your local breed club, or local AKC chapter for a breeder referral? Or tried attending a dog show in your area and seeing if you can meet a nicepug breeder? Usually these are the best places to start as the breeders are more in to the breed for the love of the breed and not so much for the money.
Alright guys, thanks for all the info. I did talk with my breeder. She does offer a 2 year health guarantee on genetic and birth defects. Offers a health certificate at sale of pup and a 2year guarantee. She has tested the male and he does not carry any genes for birth defects and she is testing the female before she breeds her so it looks like I am good.
You know as far as line-breeding goes I don't go for it, or buy it. Please don't jump on be because I disagree, but all living creatures have SOME type of genetic health problem that they are prone to, and breeding closely doubles up on them. I just don't think you can see the immediate effects, but I think that is why nearly EVERY purebred dog has some type of genetic thing that they are prone to and that is why many breeds of dogs actually have SHORTER lifespans than they did in the past.
Not to mention some people just take it too far, breeding mother to son, littermates, and so on. That is why AKC says that inbreeding should only be left to very experienced breeders.
There are articles that BOTH sides of this issue that could thow out at eachother, and I know many SHOW breeders are the people that choose to gamble with linebreeding. That doesn't make it right. Sometimes I think people get a little too stuck on their dogs and think they are superior to every one elses. There are too many nice health tested dogs out there today for people to be line breeding. JMO.
I must confess up front I didn't read the whole thread, so if I'm repeating, sorry. I read Pearl's answer and it was what I had been thinking while I was reading. I really do believe that where you live plays a big part of the price you will pay. I am in South Texas and cost of living is much cheaper here. I purchased my pug, AKC registered, etc. six years ago for 300.00. The prices here just aren't as high as I have noticed other people talking about. Not just for pets either. I remember a while back we had this same discussion regarding how much people pay to have their animals fixed. It is much cheaper here. Just a thought. I can't imagine paying 2500.00 for a pet, but in other parts of the country that just might be the going rate. Around here max is about 1200.00.
It ticks me off that pet shops in NYC get $2000 for their puppy mill boxer puppies, which is more than I get for my Champion Sired Show Prospects. That said, most of my dogs are shipped out of State to NJ, NY, MA, CA, TX, and CO, because do price my puppies higher than other breeders in my area. Every breeder has a choice of how and why they price their puppies. I could say more, but a lot of things get taken out of context when talking about the subject of 'money' and dogs.
***Edited By: alicat1 on 6/30/2006 10:52:08 AM*** Reason: ad
I think the cost of shipping is perfectly reasonable explanation for pricing. I want to say you have to be kidding about the price in the pet stores, but unfortunately I know you're right. It's just sad.
She said she has done all testing on the father. He is 12 champs in his first 3 generations of pedigree. She gives a 2year warranty on congenital defect. So I can't answer exactly what she is testing for, she test for birth defects and had it all done on the father and is doing the mother before she is to be bred. She wants 600 for the pup.