I dont' think it makes a difference if someone shows UKC or AKC personally, I do like UKC shows. However, I live in the southeast andt here are like... 2 UKCs done per year with in a 2 hour radius of my house. So you're very very limited if you are interested in showing UKC. Now ifyou're interested in AKC, there's dozens of shows in that same period in the same area.
I think the importance is that by showing in performance or conformation, regardless of which kennel club you use, you are exhibiting a geniune interest in getting your dog out there and doing activities with it. Most people who do these activities are also involved in all breed clubs, obedience clubs, agility clubs, etc, and are around other dogs of their breed and others all the time, which reduces the effects and incidence of 'kennel blindness'.
You've all pretty much mentioned the same things that have been running through my head. Lately, showing has been on my mind but frankly I've been reading different web sites and seeing a frightening number of web sites that state "We only breed to show" I used to see "we only breed to better the breed" it's not the same thing if you think about it long and hard enough. That said the stories about the dogs being kept in crates while being home, well, I've heard that mentioned by the owners as well, mainly because they don't want the dogs coat damaged or matted. :( I wonder if it's possible to find a breeder that....has their dogs as loved pets in the house, on the bed, in the car, running in the wind, playing ball, and even DIGGING A HOLE and still able to win in the show ring. Now I know some of you are thinking "of course there are" and possibly there are, probably more so with certain breeds....I've been looking at lhasa apso sites so clearly the show dog needs to be in full coat so these are issues that come up frequently.
First, once again I see that there are people here who like to "jump" a poster that they dont agree with, and thats all fine and dandy so long as you know the entire story B4 you jump.
I stated in my original post that I was unable to show due to circumstances here at home....well its just that! I am the ONLY person to care for my 70 year old father who is diabetic, has congestive heart failure, is crippled from a work accident over 20 years ago and the list of his problems goes on and on....how am I supposed to go and leave him? My husband is an over the road car hauler he is home 4 DAYS A MONTH, I am not gonna go away when he is home....even though he makes more than enough money to support me and 20 dogs on the show trail....DUH, quit jumping on me just because you dont agree with everything I say! I am really quite sick of your high and mighty attitudes....YOU are no better than anyone else so get off your high horse or beleive me karma will come and knock you off.
Some people are so mean because their real life is so miserable, how very sad. I now understand why some posters here go on a rant and get to ticked off with all the "holier than thou" attitudes that abound around here.
NOW for those who wanted to know I have my dogs eyes checked every year, I get the vet records of any dog that I am planning to purchase the off spring of, I also check with the owners of the grandparents to verify age *if they have passed, health problems, etc. My vet checks their blood every year for liver/pancreass problems AND the person who evaluates my dogs is a LONG time breeder and also SHOWS with many champions to her credit. I also DO NOT in line breed, as of today I have had NO health problems with any of my dogs or their off spring. Thank you to those who chose to not jump on me for my previous statements.....I work very hard to improve this breed and be an ETHICAL, HONEST breeder. My dogs have the run of the house, not living in cages, they run in the yard, get dirty, and have GREAT lives....thats what they are supposed to do.
Melodee...just for the record, I'd probably buy a pup from you. I'm sorry about your Dad, that's gotta be tough. And if my husband was only home 4 days a month...I might wanna see him too. ;-) Kidding, I would want to see him. :) Okay so I was looking on another site at lhasas again and came across "this" ------------------------------------------------------------ All of our Lhasa Apso's are raised in our HOMES. We breed once or twice a year looking for that perfect show dog for ourselves to show and go on with when the adults we keep and show finish their AKC CHAMPIONSHIPS (totally owner handled)SHOWING THAT THEY ARE EXCELLENT REPRESENTATIVES OF THE BREED we will breed them once or twice Spay or neuter them and find wonderful FOREVER pet homes for them and go on AND SHOW their children .
I see this often and to me, it's just sad. I'm truly wrestling with this because I see this alot on honestly I have a hard time believing that some of these pups from what are supposed to be incredible breeders are better dogs than a pup that has been held, love snuggled, talked to etc etc. I'm not saying these breeders dont do these things but it sure makes it clear they're breeding to SHOW.
Kristen, I would interpret that 'We only breed to show' differently from you.
I know many breeders who only breed once every year or two, when they are wanting a puppy from existing lines they own to be a rising star in their show kennels. THus, they only breed when they want a new dog to show.
And i know many many people who's dogs are their beloved family members and are spoiled rotten in the house, sleeping in the bed, romping in the backyard and digging like fools when they aren't being shown. I know someone who's got 6 irish wolfhounds and 2 scottish deerhounds, and they live in the house with her!... they have their own king size bed! With the coated breeds, their fur is tied up or tucked up so it doesnt trail the ground... daily grooming makes things easier all around, and the dogs have to be bathed before shows anyway. Do you seriously think Icyhound keeps all of her afghans from romping outside to keep them from getting their long hair dirty? If you do, you are sorely mistaken.
Miss Melodee, wow your response is incredibly hostile considering I merely asked what kind of heatlh testing is done on mini schnauzers (having never been interested in buying one, I have no idea what their health issues are). Either way, I guess you haven't produced any dogs that went on to show or get points or have recieved their Ch titles, since you didn't answer that question. Is your breeder/mentor not interested in using some of your dogs for her own breeding program or showing?
None of my puppies have ever went on to title, even though I use Champion stud dogs. That is because a solid 80%+ go to pet homes w/ spay neuter agreements.
Of the other 20%, I am normally keeping the best female puppy from the litter, which only leaves maybe 1-2 puppies from the litter that go with full registration.
Of those puppies a lot of times people do tell me they intend to show the puppy, but unlike some, I do NOT REQUIRE that they be shown. Of all people, I know stuff can happen. Boxers are a tough breed to title, and I am not going to REQUIRE people to spend thousands and thousands of dollers to finish a dog.
I do have a puppy from one of my June litters and this lady WILL be showing. She has already talked to a handler in her area. She plans on purchasing another show puppy from me in the spring.
It is just not my top priority to place in show homes. I really don't need my kennel name 'out there'. The quickest way to build a kennel name is to find a ton of 'show buyers' and require that they finish the dog or else.
Hard to add anything that hasnt already been addressed, but here goes: _______________________________ I though about breeding and showing minpins and talked to a lady for a long time. she said I should start with red I said I like black and tan alot better I love markings. She said well alot of judges will only judge reds, They will make the reds stand to one side and the others stand to the other side then they will look at the reds and pick a winner with out lookign at the others. I said that cant be legal in show. She said its sad but it is. I decited I didnt want to show dogs not long after that. ___________________________________
NOT TRUE: I have been breeding and showing Min Pins a long time. Yes, back in the day the reds were preferable, and seemed to be more easily finished. The dogs are not seperated in the ring by color before judging, that would surely drop that judges entries in the future with a move like that. They dont do that.
Do you some judges prefer the reds....sure they, do some prefer the blacks...absolutely, and wonderfully enough...many judges will quickly place a chcolate that is worthy as well. ______________________________________ I wonder if it's possible to find a breeder that....has their dogs as loved pets in the house, on the bed, in the car, running in the wind, playing ball, and even DIGGING A HOLE ____________________________________________
Yep. Our dogs are pets, lap warmers, family members, bed companions, and friends FIRST. We just happen to also go to shows on the weekends with them as well. This also goes as well for most of our show friends.
I do admit I know some who's dogs are in a crate, only out for potty, and shows. Sad. I dont see the fun of having the dogs if that is how you do it. JMO.
Can I just add that a pet peeve of mine is when a breeder says their dog is "show quality", and yet, has never been shown? How do you KNOW the dog is show quality? Especially when they go on to say there is a champion in the lineage. Well, whoop-de-doo. BOTH of Maggie's parents have "champion" in their title. Do I claim she is show quality? No-she's never been in a show, so I have absolutely no clue if she is or not. She looks pretty darn good to me, but I'm certainly not qualified to judge her attributes. Just annoys me how people feel they have bragging rights because great-great-great grandfather was in a show once.
I see ads all the time bragging "championship lines" You ask for the pedigree and there is one or two champions in an entire 5 generation pedigree, that hardly qualifies.
Have also seen the "show quality" being thrown around alot and when you talk to the people....they have never shown a day in their life. They just call it show quality because they think they look like a real cute one of its breed.
Any dog I have ever bred or used in my breeding program has had a title at BOTH ends and been cleared for common health issues in the breed.
I am VERY STRICT about my breeding ethics, for example a dog out of one of my pups is an AKC Champion, can herd sheep, and was ranked in the top 20 on the UKC standings for the breed, he however was tested OFA fair, and although this is considered acceptable to breed from I requested his co-owner neuter him (and he is now) simply becasue of high standards.
Miss Melodee... you don't "In Line Breed?" Inbreeding and Line breeding are MUCH different. When done correctly they can strengthen and improve lines. My top show dog is Line bred.
Catlover - I sell some of my pups as show prospects and pet prospects, it is obvious with some breeds at a young age who will make it and who won't. The Bernese Mountain Dogs, for example, have specific coloring, and it's also easy to tell who will be oversized and who will be undersized. If you know your breed VERY well you will also recognise finer points of the standard. Also... just because you breed show quality dogs does not mean the whole litter is show quality, I will say with my breedings it's about 50/50.
If you aren't showing or working your dogs then WHY are you breeding? To make nice "pets?"
Also -KRISTEN - I feel the need to add, all of my dogs, show or not live the lives of every other dog. They don't sit on cushions eating doggie bon bons all day, they run around the yard, chase sheep, roll in the manure pile, kill basketballs and yes... they will eat horse poop.
Just HAD to add, to those who calim that all show dogs live in tiny crates all day... I doubt it. Dogs in the show ring MUST be well muscled and in prime condition... NOT going to happen if a dog is constantly crated, this is why we see more and more breeders working with their conformation dogs, to build muscle.
I never said ALL, I don't believe that any one can say all to anything, because there are always exceptions. All I can say is a good percentage of the people I know-- particularly if they have more than 5-6 dogs, crate them. A lot. I go to people's houses, I see with my own eyes.
Some of my own dogs are crated at night because I can't have them all running around the house. The difference is that I stay home with them full-time so mine are out 90% of the time during waking hours.
When my dog Paris was on a 6 week circuit, how could my handler 'exercise her' when she had 10 other dogs with her? She was living in a moter home and her excerise was an x-pen.
That was NOT my choice to do to her, and it wouldn't me my choice to use that handler again, but I am obligated by a show contract.
***Edited By: alicat1 on 1/2/2007 9:38:10 PM*** Reason: ad
Wandering Spirit, I agree. Although both Maggie's parents are champions, it does not necessarily mean that she would be. But then again, I don't go around bragging that she is "show quality". More important to me, is that both parents were OFA tested-one rating excellent, and the other, good. To me, health was one of my main concerns, even though brittanys are not as prone to dysplasia as some other breeds. One of my first questions to the breeder was not about the titles her dogs won, but the health problems that she ran into.
On another note, I tend to think that any breeder who says they NEVER had a health problem is probably lying. I appreciate honesty. I was told about 2 pups that developed a problem (over many, many years of breeding) and exactly how she handled each situation.
WOW, I am a bit shocked at the responses being displayed. I think it's all right to express an opinion, but there are more tactful ways to do so then to break the spirits of people that are asking for advice about their pets that they obviously love dearly. Many of the comments are sarcastic, and I feel bad for people that get shot down for asking a simple and harmless question (myself being one).
It shows we care to even ask a question, I am new to the forum and feel put aback by the harsh comments relating to people's choices to breed their animals, especially if the puppies are spoken for long before they are even born. I have been looking for another addition to my home and all the breeders I have contacted have waiting lists for many breeding cycles. So I haven't had much luck finding what I am looking for and I have been doing so for months.
I am not a breeder, but I love my dogs and I won't even put a picture of my gorgeous dogs on this forum for fear of being criticized for having a "white schnauzer" and not the breed standard.
Maybe we should look at people that want help in a different light and appreciate the fact they they care enough about their animals to ask questions or respond.
This is called terrificpet forum, not AKC forum. Can't we talk about all our pets, any standard? I can appreciate the feelings of people wanting to maintain breed standards but for those of us that don't have the BREED STANDARD, it's hard not to feel a bit shunned and even ashamed that we could love an animal that isn't standard. And I am not ashamed of my beautiful dogs and do not see them as substandard in any way.
I'd have to say, my pets are treated better than most children I know (and I am a teacher by trade so I do know.....). I just think we should think before we react, so many comments are quick responses rather than ones showing tact. Just my opinion. But then again I ALWAYS see things as half full, not empty. Dawn
think about it for a second though, you have two equallly matched dogs, the one with healthier muscleing is going to place higher. I have been around dogs, and dog shows for a long time... too long, I have seen some horrible treatment of dogs, but on the other hand MOST dog show people honeslty love their dogs and are trying to improve the breed... there is no money in shows, except for handleing...
Catlover, I see what you mean, good health is important to me also, and I am honest with my lines. a Bernese Mtn Dogs average lifespan is about 8 years, my line is about 10, there are a few lines working with dogs 12+, I would love to be able to twll new owners that there dog will live at least 12 years, but that's just not true.
No one ever said it is wrong to own a dog that is out of standard. After all, LOTS of people on this forum own mixed breed dogs. We really don't care if your dog fits the standard or not-all dogs are loveable and deserving of good homes. What people are against is intentionally BREEDING dogs that are out of standard.
dawniedoodle1.............we are discussing the topic asked to be discussed by the OP. This forum has an array of topics, not just the ones YOU find interesting. If it is not of interest to you or doesnt pertain to your type of ownership, feel free to not participate in this one.
See if I had a choice, and I do, I will buy a dog from a breeder like Wandering, this is a person that cares about the whole dog, mind and body. Health and heart, she works, shows and health tests, all before thinking about breeding. If you are not willing to do this then you should not be breeding, this is how supereour dogs are created. I dont want a dog from someone who considers their dogs breed worthy, I want a dog from someone who KNOWS their dogs are breed worthy.
I do realise that there are exceptions to this rule, if you breed field labs then compete, if you breed Chihuahuas then show them.