what do you think

In my opinion I think it is good for poor and middle class

I honestly cannot say i even know all of what his plans are. I do not have access to cable TV at this time so have missed out on alot. All I do know is that this country better get some kind of plan into action soon.

the inability for someone to get treatment because they lack insurance in this country is downright disgusting and inhumane and if there had been some kind of plan already put in place my best friend would be able to walk right now without assistance.

This will bankrupt an already economically stressed America and take choice away from you. You will not be able to just call and make an appointment with the doctor whenever you want to. There will be rationing and those who do not procuce will not get the resources as they will be saved for the productive citizens, for example, say a quadriplegic who cannot function, gets cancer. They will more than likely be denied care because it's too expensive and the treatments need to be saved for someone that is productive, why spend money on someone who doesn't contribute to society? and if you don't believe me, Google:

Oregon, woman with cancer, denied medicine, assisted suicide

and read the story of a woman who was not only told she couldn't have the treatment because it was too expensive and she would die anyway (the medicine could give her up to 6 extra months of quality life) but the state of Oregon would pay for her physician assisted suicide if she wanted that. That's pretty horrible, and America with government health care can expect that for every terminal cancer patient, think of what 6 extra months would mean to you if YOUR mother had cancer. That's not the government's decision to make, that should be between the doctor and patient. If poor people want to get insurance they need to get off their butts and get a job where they get health benefits. Maybe they should give up those cigarretts and beer, computers, cable TV cell phones with all the fancy ringtones. Quit wasting money at MacDonald's and Sonic and buy your dang insurance. And don't rag on me, sister, cause I don't have health insurance either. When I need medical care, I pay my doctor and he lets me pay him out if the bill's high. He gives me a discount for paying cash,too. Too many people want something for nothing and it's not free, people like me pay for it when the government takes 25% of my pay away from me for taxes. When I get paid, one forth of my pay is taken out of my check and given to the government. Then given to someone who doesn't want to work. Something wrong there with that picture........


And BTW no one is denied treatment in America. Maybe the uninsured cannot got to Cancer treatment Centers Of America, but they can get treatments thru the American Cancer Society and drug companies that donate their medicines to poor people. If people are truly ill, they can go to an emercency room and get care, they CANNOT BE TURNED AWAY, THEY MUST BE TREATED. So that argument doesn't hold water either. Again, if people want fancy medical care, go get a job with health benefits. And quit expecting the worker bees to pay for the people who think they are the queen bees.

Amen schoolbus gal.

It's really easy for Canadians to praise the Universal Health Care system. Let's face it, we are not an Empire like America. We don't spend Billions of dollars a year trying to police the world, our military is almost non-existant.

The American military is vast and costs billions of dollars a day to function. We have a small deficit and a declining debt. The US government is destroying itself and is bankrupt.

As schoolbus gal said:
"This will bankrupt an already economically stressed America and take choice away from you."

For this to work they would have to tax us out the arse.
Why should the US government get to decide where my money goes?
Why should I have to pay for someone elses medical bills? That is what it comes down to. I have my own family to care for.

Being taxed doesn't allow me to decide where my hard earned money goes. If I want to donate to places like the American Cancer Society then I should be able to of my own free will. If I want to be selfish and horde my earnings, then why shouldn't I? The government shouldn't make that choice.

I had this same conversation recently with a family member through an email. The below statement is from one of those emails.

"So far the Obama administration has authorized the Federal Reserve to transfer 24 TRILLION dollars of fresh new American debt to Private Banks the vast majority of which are foreign not American.

This is enough money to fund health care for the next 50 years for every american but instead the American Debt is now (estimated) to be in excess of 90 THOUSAND BILLION DOLLARS. The Gross Domesitic Product of the United States is only 14 TRILLION ANNUALLY. There will NEVER be Universal Health care in the United States because the country is bankrupt, all their jobs are in China with ours. Even their Auto Manufacturers are being sold to foreign owners or Nationalized."


Something needs to be done about the health care here in the US, but I do not think this will be the solution.

God Bless

***Edited By: minminnies on 8/31/2009 7:14:15 AM***
Reason: edit

Sorry I will take my Alberta Health Care over lower taxes. The only thing that used to bother me is that there were only 2 pay levels single or family, no matter how large the family was, now we dont pay anything a month.

But after being on different forums for several years and reading different stories from different people who can not afford to get things fixed I am happy as hell to put money towards universal health care.

Oh and illusion dental care is not covered, at least in Alberta, but Blue Cross does take a good portion of the cost, 80% I think.

I agree illusion! I think I heard somewhere or possibly read that it would have been anywhere from $30,000 - $50,000 per person.
I can only imagine how much that would have helped the economy.

"And BTW no one is denied treatment in America. Maybe the uninsured cannot got to Cancer treatment Centers Of America, but they can get treatments thru the American Cancer Society and drug companies that donate their medicines to poor people. If people are truly ill, they can go to an emercency room and get care, they CANNOT BE TURNED AWAY, THEY MUST BE TREATED. So that argument doesn't hold water either. Again, if people want fancy medical care, go get a job with health benefits. And quit expecting the worker bees to pay for the people who think they are the queen bees."



I can agree with you on only the fact that I am particularily tired of having my money go towards people who are just too lazy to get a job and work for a living. The people who want everything for nothing, who are on welfare, etc. However let me clue you in on the healthcare available out there for those who, due to no fault of their own, have no insurance and absolutely can be denied treatment by using a real life example.........

This just recently happened to a friend of mine and while I know she would hate for me to tell her story it is relevant to this topic and the statement you just made. She has a job that does offer health benefits, however when the boss takes your money for them and doesn't pay the premiums to the insurance company, your insurance gets canceled like anything else that doesn't get paid.

She had severe back pain, so severe she could barely walk. So she went to the ER. The ER did not do any X-rays, MRI's etc. to diagnose what was wrong with her back they just gave her pain meds and sent her out the door. According to them, they are not responsible to treat her beyond symptomatically ..... meaning they can give her pain meds for her pain but they are not obligated to diagnose the reason for her pain because she is uninsured. After her 3rd trip to the ER for the same problem they finally admitted her, put her on IV pain meds, finally did an MRI, found out she had a ruptured disc and then sent her home 4 days later on prescription drugs for the pain. 3 days after being home she lost all motor function in her left leg, could not stand, walk, move etc. and had the ambulance take her back to the hospital. They admitted her again and still just threw her on pain meds and left her be for 2 days. It wasn't until she opened her mouth and pleaded with the doctor not to be treated any differently because she had no insurance, that she would like to regain use of her leg, did they send in an anesthesiologist to evaluate her. The anesthesiologist refused to give her an epidural because it would only treat her pain but not the cause of her pain so they sent in an orthopedist who insisted on doing the epidural and sending her home. So next they sent in the neurologist who sent her to another hospital immediately for emergency surgery on her back. The neurologist at the other hospital told her that her MRI was one of the worst cases he had ever seen, that the doctor(s) at the first hospital should have recognized the severity of her problem, especially since she had lost all feeling in her leg, and had her have the emergency surgery 2 weeks ago when they finally did the MRI.

Now, a 42 year old woman who worked everyday of her life, single mother of a 14 yr old girl, is not a welfare scum, has to walk with the assistance of a brace on her leg, a cane and/or walker, still has no feeling in her leg and has been told it may never return. She can no longer work in the field she used to, cannot sit or stand or walk for that matter for long periods of time, cannot drive, at least for right now but what does it matter if eventually she can because she certainly will not be able to afford a car and insurance if the doctor signs her off as permenently disabled. Which there is a better than excellent chance that he will have to given her current condition. All because she was denied the same treatment as an insured person would have received. And believe me it all has to do with the no insurance issue because a dr I work with was going through the same exact problem as my friend and her treament and care was considerably different than my uninsured friends was!!

So don't tell me people cannot be denied healthcare and treatment. This countries priorities have been out of whack for so damn long. Something better change soon and if this will help more people who honestly deserve it, like my friend, then as far as I am concerned more power to obama on getting this put through.

*




***Edited By: Minminnies on 8/31/2009 7:18:54 AM***
Reason: *Irreleant, not my story to tell.

I don't think a lot of people understand how insurance works.

Just because a doc decides a line of treatment may be correct for a patient does not mean they will get it. First it has to be run by the ins company.

People and their docs are not deciding treatment,the ins companies are. They are the ones practicing medicine now because they have final say.

There are hundreds of times a year a ins company will not approve a med we give a patient so they have to go home on something that may not help them as much(not just generic but a whole other med). And then the next time that patient comes in the ins company does not want to pay and will only approve one day because they were just there even though the reason they did bad was the med the ins company made them be put on.



My grandma got one day in the hospital after her hip replacement. The ins company decided she could go home even though pt said she needed rehab. It had all been set up and last minute the hospital informed us they couldn't get the ins company to approve it. Same on our floor when the ins companies approve one day for someone who is very sick and needs to be there.

When people need transplants its the ins company that oks it. There was a msnbc article I read at work about some young girl who needed a transplant and the ins company said no and after the docs and parents fought it they approved it-and she died a couple hours later because it was to late.

So anyway-I am not so so sure anything our government does is great-but something needs to change. As it stands now I think our ins companies would be forced to improve to compete if this happened.

I really think cost would go down if there was just some program to watch over the ins companies.

I see why ins should be necessary since people come to the hospital and we have to treat them whether they have ins or not. But I also think screw them if they don't want it. But I could ramble about this forever.

OK Let's see if I can say this in a different way and make more sense here.
We have this mindset that everything should be free. People, healthcare is expensive. The insurance companies are not totally to blame, the government has a share in this too. But the biggest problem is the GIMME GIMME GIMME menatlity.
When did we get out of the times when you paid for what you needed? When I was a kid, you paid the doctor for his services, much like we pay for veterinary care. Fee is due upon service provided. Insurance was for big ticket items like surgery or terminal illnesses, but when you had your annual physical it was paid for by YOU. When you had a cold or flu, YOU paid the doctor bill. Little Timmy's broken arm? Yep, paid for by Mom and Dad. Only the most expensive treatments were covered and people took RESPONSIBILITY for their minor medical needs. And we didn't go run to the doctor for every little cold sneeze or fever.
We didn't have laws that said EVERYONE must be treated, like little punk gangbangers that are stupi enough to get an attitude and get themselves shot up. That trauma experience costs hundreds of thousands of dollars and no pays for that,,, Mom isn't waiting in the business office to settle up that account. So how is the hosptial supposed to make money to buy new equpiment and technology to benefit the PAYING patients? Well they can't because no one paid that puke's bill. Back in the old days, Homey would have died out in the streets and maybe the other bangers would figure out the 'tude isn't worth dying over and they'd settle their differences with boxing gloves in a ring. And all the illegals coming here to have their anchor babies. Not only do they get a free pass to America, they also get to gobble up welfare benefits and free lunch and now free breakfast, WIC, subsidized housing,special spanish speaking classes, and they sure as heck don't pay THEIR hospital bill to deliver that little bundle of governament handouts either. Just how much are we spending on that? Money that could go to help our citizens that just need a break.
Obama is setting terrorists free, taxing us to death, wait til you see his plans for energy....Can you say "Cap and Trade" that's a global tax on energy consuption and if you think the world is going to shre that tax burden with us, you're really orbiting some other planet.
The problem is NO ONE IS INFORMED....Maybe instead of being on this website, you should be reading the Senate and House bills and find out what the plans really are....
But don't force SOCIALISM on me. I don't want it

If you think your not already paying for people without insurance your missing the point. You already are. The point is to get a wrangle the inflated costs of health care...bringing what you pay now, to a lower number. Bringing some control to the crazy insurance costs, putting some control on the doctors who ordering way to many tests, and prescribing way to many drugs. Also...I think a 25 y/o healthy person should have the right to not have health insurance. He/she should have the right to denie coverage. Right now our coutry is employer provides system. So, if a 25 y/o with little health risk would rather have it in his/her paycheck instead of not having a choice, he/she should be able to do that. I also, think that people who make poor lifestyle choices should have to pay more than those who do not. They use more health care than a person who does not...but everyone pays the same. Something is messed up when I workout everyday, eat right, don't smoke, don't drink. But billy who is 250lbs eats like crap, smokes...gets the same coverage for the same price. and he gets more out of the deal.

We are the only first world nation who does not have goverment run health care program....we are ranked 36th in the world for health care.

and look, this it's a gimmie attitude when you say your more entitled to healthcare than any other American. We are Americans we take care of our own. That's what should be great about being American. Health care is not a privelage only bestowed upon the employed...it's a basic human right.

what a great performance by Obama in his speech to Congress

What a brilliant mind

God bless our President God bless America

If Obama gets his way, our mothers, fathers, and grandparents are in big trouble. Hello these are the people that brought us into this world and who gave us what we have today. How would you feel, if the government told your elderly parents or grandparents, that they couldn't get a hip replacement, knee replacement, cancer treatment, and etc, just because of their age. If we keep taking things from the elderly, many of them will become homeless, starve, freeze when it's cold, or die from a heat stroke. Many of you had better think about this, because their well being will effect you as well.

Have any of you thought about this. Obamba's health plan will not effect him or his family. Why? He's the president now, so he and his family will always get the best of care. He knows, that none of it will effect him. The laugh is on all of you, who are wanting this. Believe me, there's got to be a better way. I will say this though. Not all of it is Obama, you can belive that the senate is working his strings.

Something for a few of you to think about. If Obama's healthcare passes, guess how hard it will be for you to get diability. Oh yes, you'll have to wait your turn to see a doctor, which could take weeks or even months. Hmmmm.

I want my children to earn their way in life. Nothing should be handed to them. They need to learn, that not everyone can have it all, that we are all special in our own ways. They need to learn to work for what they have, so they will respect what they've earned.

One final thing for everyone to keep in mind. Many of our parents and grandparents fought and died, so we could live in freedom. It will not be long, until these wonderful people are gone. They've earned their freedom, we just got to go along for a long ride with them. Well time is running out. If everyone just gives up and lets the government support us, one day we will be in our parents and grandparents shoes.

All of you young people, old will be here for you before you know it. WAKE UP.

Curdog-- you are just wrong. What you are saying is fear mongering and not based on any fact other than..... you are saying it, so it must be true. Prove me wrong. I don't think you can.

Most of the elderly already have Medicare as their only insurance, and they get cared for just fine. As do people on Medicaid.....well until the Republican's took office and started denying a lot of needy people coverage.

You do realize that most of the poorest of the poor, already qualify for free health care from these programs?????

It is the WORKING POOR/Middle class that get screwed. Those that make too much money to qualify for Medicaid, but not nearly enough to purchase insurance on their own from the THUG HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES.

I know, it is a terrible thought for a lot of people that the poor may get something that they "don't deserve", but are you willing to sacrifice all of the families that do work 2 jobs and still can not afford insurance?

I DON'T WANT ANYTHING FOR FREE. I just want something I can afford. Something fair. An insurance that is about helping sick people be healed, not about corporate fat-cats making BILLIONS.

Billions. That is why they are so scared. I don't feel any obligation to these insurance companies that have been profiting off the blood of our citizens for the past 30 years. Denying care to save money.

How many people have died, because INSURANCE COMPANIES did not provide the care and treatments people needed?

It is alright that insurance companies have had "Death Panels" for the past 30 years. Hiring people to find ways to deny as much LEGITIMATE coverage as possible. Nice.

Do you realize what it costs for a family to purchase insurance on their own? For comparable insurance to what I had working for the State, the Blue Cross/Blue Shield Policy is $1100 per month for the family. $1100X12 months= $13,200 per year PLUS $2000 deductible right off the bat, where coverage does not start = $15,200 and that only covers 80/20 on many things.

$15,200 for health care alone. That is more than my mortgage and car payments combined. Most people can not afford to pay the $15,200 per year out of pocket, so they just go with out and hope that they won't get sick.

Unlike auto insurance, where someone may never been in an accident, everyone eventually gets sick. Everyone dies. Guaranteed.

People should have an option to PURCHASE insurance from some place that is more concerned about HELPING SICK PEOPLE than making profits. It is that simple.

My mother has BOOP and Nocardia. She will probably die from the BOOP one day. She should be on disability, but keeps getting turned down, BY OUR GOVERNMENT. All because, she is making too much money to qualify. Believe me, she isn't making very much. She can't afford to cut her hours, or go on work disability, until she qualifies as not having too much. She'd loose everything, not to mention in major dept. If she looses her job, then there goes her health insurance. After loosing it all, then the government can take care of her and she will probably then get disability. Oh most important thing. My mom is 61 years old, and single. All 113 pounds of her flesh and bones, gets up every morning and goes to work a stressful job for 8-13 hours. Many of her co-workers worry about her. What strength God has given her.
There are many people out there, that don't need to be on disability. I know many of them out there, that can breathe and get around much better than my mom. So, I'm sorry, I have no sympathy anymore.
There are many people coming to the USA without a job. Some are here legal, others are not. Many of them, that pull their load, they want to make something of themselves. A few of them even pay taxes and social security. Those that don't pull their load, and don't pay taxes or social security, are killing our government. They are riding the back of our government and living better than my mother and me. It's people like this, that's making our government go in dept. Why should I have to change my way of life, just to benenfit people like this. I'm sorry, but I just believe, that you need to earn your way in life. If you've never worked or paid taxes, then you shouldn't be allowed to draw disability, draw social security and get some medical care. These non-workers and new citizens are taking away from those who have done their part.
I want to have the right, to take my children and myself, to any docotor that I please. If this health care passes, you will not get this option. Have you heard how many medical students will be changing their profession, if this passes. It's pretty scary.