My E. bulldog comes from a rather diverse pedigree. He is out of Marinebull stock which was later cross bred with Hetherbull Lines. Amoungst these lines you can find various routes of inbreeding. Strangely enough there are an awful lot of Ch. titles amoungst these sickly dogs. :) He also has a bit of Cherokee bull in him from eons ago. As far as pedigree goes I wasn't really concerned, and it wasn't criteria for getting my bullie. I wanted someone reputable and trustworthy that stood by thier dogs. My breeder has had two litters in the past 5 years and has stood behind me with any problems I have encountered. We don't plan to show him, we don't plan to breed him, he is a part of our family for as long as he is with us. It took a long time of weeding through ALOT of so called reputable breeders, going to visit places that turned out to be your average puppy mill. It took ALOT of speaking with my breeder to make sure everything was on the up and up and I could trust him, but it took about two and a half seconds of seeing my puppy and where he he was born to know that I had made the right choice. He may have Ch. blood, but I don't think he knows it. and when he pulls the typical Bulldog attitude we don't really care what bloodline he has. :)
my lab has a greatgrandparent breeding that was a half sister to a half brother, other than that no linebreeding or inbreeding. my pug has something similar, but not sure exactly the relation off the top of my head.
Reese was bred through Outcross Breeding. The breeder had two different bloodlines that he produced show dogs. They are registered AKC Staffs. He's very beautiful and very healthy. Grace was Scatterbred by a Joe Blow B.Y.B. She's a sweet dog, but has some health issues such as allergies and weight. Her health will definately have to be monitored most of her life.
I think some of the line breeding depends on the breed. Toy poodles have really not been around that long (50 years). The gene pool came from small miniatures. When the breeders of the time were downsizing the mini to create the toy size, they constantly used the same breed stock to keep the size down. I have done a fifteen generation pedigree on some of my toys and you will find ancestors on there used up to 47 times. Of course, that is over a span of say 4-5 generations and 32,767 dogs. Here is a link to Sammy's pedigree. He has the same dog in his 5 gen. pedigree 3 times. This is linebreeding with some outcross. http://home.teleport.com/%7Egottahav/sammyped/sammyped.htm
paulalynn Im sorry you lost your first one so young that must have been hard:( Glad you found another. HighJumps I agree, we've had the inbreeding go around before and this thread was supposed to be about how your dog is bred, not whats the best way or whats popular. Yes its very common in my breed (APBT), but they are not walking genetic diseases carriers, they have very few genetic disorders. What Minn stated. "From listening to you, I think that inbreeding is a lot more common in pit bulls and apparently in american staffordshire terriers than it is in most breeds of akc show dogs. And it IS true, if there is a genetic flaw hidden in a dog's bloodlines, it will show up a heck of a lot faster by inbreeding than it would by outcrossing. Because dogs that are related are more likely to carry the same recessive defects. That's both good and bad though, by inbreeding, you can find the flaws faster and remove the dogs from breeding pools." I have actually stated MYSELF, so I agree with it. I never said inbreeding couldn't bring forward unwanted traits quicker, but they act like its ALL bad and NO reputable breeders do it in there previous post. The AB breeders I looked at linebred, but they aren't an AKC breed. I went looking for Mal breeders mostly working stock, but a couple show breeders and they linebred. I posted this on another all breed forum and people had SBT and BTs from show breeders that were linebred. But I didn't want to sit here and argue about it. It doesn't matter to me what people do/dont do I just want the "dirt" on everyones dogs. Stick around the forum b/c it really is great! There are some disputes and sometimes things get hot but there are a lot of members with a lot opinions. It would also be cool if you answered about your dogs, I'd love to here. I'm going to post on mine later.
Wow you really do know. I want a Beagle. I found a kennel I really liked by the looks of it. http://www.angelfire.com/tx2/renosk9kennel/ I want a show bred beagle, not a working bred. I really like the looks of their dogs, so pretty and nice pedigrees. CHs and linebred. But I'd have to do more research on the kennel and beagle lines. I've had my eye on that one for about a year, I also found this one http://shawsbeagles.tripod.com/ the have some of the same blood behind their dogs.
My apologies for getting off topic.... True Pits.....you may want to visit the Show Beagle Resource Center at http://www.showbeagle.com/. Click on "Breeder Homepages" to visit breeder web sites in the U.S. and throughout the world. Returning to the original topic: my most recent litter was an outcross between two inbred beagles, both the result of breeding half-brother to half-sister. The sire line includes BISS winners; the dam is a double grand-daughter of the 2002 dam of the year. All six puppies from the litter are now in show homes. Linebreeding is very common among show breeders; inbreeding is much less common but it can be useful to a knowledgeable breeder.
THANKS SO MUCH!!!! I'll check it out. "Linebreeding is very common among show breeders; inbreeding is much less common but it can be useful to a knowledgeable breeder." Thats kind of what I thought by the pedigrees I studied, but Minn always said it (linebreeding) was rare or it was really, really distant. The Beagles I've been looking at have been linebred and some inbreeding, (1/2 brother/sister) a lot of grand parents/grand children and cousins being bred and that sort of thing. I don't really care what the AKC people do and don't do, but if I buy an AKC dog then it'd probably be whatever the majority of them are breed like I guess, which is alright with me as long as they are healthy and have a sound temperament. ********************************************** To answer all my questions, everything was very important when I selected the dogs. The breeders I either knew, one I was introduced to by another breeder and then had built a relationship with before I ever decided to get a pup from them and another I did research and found. I have several so I'll run down the line. Ven I got from long time breeder and friend. He is linebred and both his parents are inbred. I had a choice between two pups, she had 5 and he was keeping 3. I picked him because of his attitude, personality and looks. He was such an outgoing/friendly pup and still is so outgoing and more than too friendly. He is always too happy and too excited with the judges, meeting people, ect but what can I say he loves people, he's a big baby teddy bear and knows he's spoiled. He gets jealous, he cries, he wants what he wants when he wants it. He's my favorite! I just love his temperament and how affectionate he is and he has almost flawless conformation. In his 4 gen pedigree (30 dogs) he only has 17 ancestors. The other female who I no longer have but have breeding rights to I got from Ven's same line, she is inbred from a 1/2 sibling breeding from the same sire, her dam is also from a father/daughter breeding from this sire. She is probably going to be outcrossed if she is ever bred, haven't really considered any possible studs though and I know the person who had her now hasn't really either. Although they are also looking to possibly do an outcross if they find the right stud as they're looking to enforce certain traits and bring some others in. I kind of miss her, she had a lot of spunk, loved showing off and doing stunts I'll be taking her to the next show I go to and I'm excited. Just like Ven in his 4 gen pedigree (30 dogs) she has 17 ancestors. I got Santana from a breeder I hadn't really known that much. I had run into her once and then again at a show. I talked to her for weeks probably. I wasn't certain I wanted another dog at the moment. I was looking at them and not really sure. Then it came down to me most likely getting one, I was having a time choosing but then I ended up deciding. I was drawn to her personality and confidence, I really liked the temperament and attitude she had! She had the best conformation too. A very outgoing/confident pup. She is outcrossed, her sire (who was also bred by her breeder) is linebred (same line as Ven only a little different) and her dam was from an outcross the sire being inbred brother/sister and dam linebred. 3 way cross. Val has been a trip, she's a fun dog to have. I didn't choose her at all. The same breeder I got Santana from had bred her CH bitch to Val's sire. She was giving me a male out of that litter. She had Val's brother from a previous breeding (who i just admired) and his breeder had just repeated the breeding right before she had bred her CH bitch to that stud. I had ALWAYS wanted a pup out of Val's dam. So when they repeated the breeding it was to be her last litter and the breeder said he might have one for sale I was pretty excited. I wanted a female from this breeding and at the time I had 1 male, 2 females and I was getting a male from Santana's breeder. She had 7 and he said he might sell a male, so I wasn't sure if I was going to get him. Then that male died anyway a couple weeks later he said he was selling one female out of the litter which didn't give me a choice. I told him I wanted her so it was like the next day I sent the deposit after talking to him for half the night. The female was seal and white. She died the day I got her. We're not really sure what from or why. She had just had her final health check, test, and shots on weds and I recieved her Mon. We have no idea what happened, maybe she picked up something, maybe traveling? The vet did nothing she was supposed to do and was too lazy to do an autotopsy like she was supposed to! All she did was a fecal and said she died of parvo, which I know isn't true. Thats what she kept insisting when she was still alive, that she had parvo, the dog didn't have symptoms of parvo, had been tested weds which was only 5 days prior and also been given her shot. When they are given their shots they may test positive for parvo for about a week if you do a fecal. But she wouldn't do what I ask and I'm still kicking myself for going to them when I know I really don't like that vet clinic. Well I talked to the breeders wife same day and she said I could have a female out of the same sire they had got for a stud fee (they got a male and a female) or I could just wait for another breeding out of him. Even though I'd really wanted one from her dam that was her last litter, I really liked the sire anyway and would love to have a whole yard full of his pups. He called me a day later and I said I'd take the female as I liked her dam too and had been considering one from her. But then I changed my mind and decided to wait and was still dismayed about loosing my pup. I talked to him all the time as usual, but about a month later he offered me the stud fee male because he decided to sale him and I jumped at the chance of taking him, I really liked him much better then his sister (for some reason) and knew that I would still have my female replaced later, but then he tells me I can have his pick female which was Val. You can imagine I was very excited, he had kept her and a white male. Well thats how I ended up getting her...lol Her sire is crossed(inbred/linebred) and her dam is practically scatterbred from 4 or 5 different lines that were linebred, well in the topside one of the lines was outcrossed twice after tight inbreeding and bred to her dam thats an outcross of two different lines. They bred Val's dam and sire together tighten up the line some. The newest addition Muse is linebred with 2 1/8th outs. I was looking for a certain bloodline, so I went on my search. I looked to a few breeders before I found hers. One I still might go to in the future and I almost went for buying a pup from them now, but I didn't much like the dams bloodline outcross. It was a good bloodline and probably a good breeding, just not one I'm looking to add. I'm still keeping my eyes open for the future when they breed the sire to something else. One other breeder actually had a female from Muse's breeder they had bred to a CH stud and were offering a male off her. However this female was bred different and had been outcrossed and I didn't want that. Weird thing was Muse's breeder had a litter off that females dam and Muse's dam, both bred to the same sire. There was 2 availabe from the other litter and one from Muse's litter. So that would be Muse and I didn't really get much a choice there either. I found out they were pretty honest people with a good reputation, I really liked the pedigree and so I went for it. She's a red brindle, which is one of my favorite colors although I didn't know that before...lol Just a nice bonus to have a dog of the color you like. I really liked them and I'm very satisfied with the pup I got (so far..lol) and might possibly go to them again in the future. The next one I'm looking at possibly getting will be something off Val's sire in a very loose linebreeding. That breeding hasn't even taken place yet, should shortly. Can't wait.