and just by two pics are you going to take it that is how all show dogs look..Do you really know how the owner treated there dogs? No you dont. Its not the Shows that do this its the owner of the dogs.. if the owner is a very loveing dog lover they would take better care of there dogs, and there dogs would know what they are really for.. Like mine.. I belive that she might be that king cocker or either a cockapoo.. she has her hunting down when i take her out thats alll she wants to do she loves it.. and she was a stray when the pound found her and I belive that she had an owner at one time and might have breed her with whatever she is.. cause her babies look just like her.. and if I could and wanted to i would put her or keep one of her puppies and put them in the show but they would still keep that hunting trait. Cause I would let them go out and hunt some.. so its not the show its just the way the owner of that dog treats them and what he/she teaches them and lets them do.
The bigger picture here is that a very slim few BYB even care about anything they are passin on to their puppies. They don't have normally look at the line and try to take the time to see if health traits appear to be being passed. Show breeders as a whole are not perfect, but they are atleast trying. BYB's are commonly not know to even put out the effort or money to find health problems or conformation.
yea and hes maeking it out that its the breeders fault that the dogs are that way when really its not. Its the owners fault.. the breeder isn't keeping the dog the owner has it. The owner is the one not letting it keep that trait.. when they dont get to do it then i am sure they forget all bout it and the owner of that dog is the one not letting them do it. and another thing the shows are not telling the people that there dogs cant do that.. its them makeing that choise.
Summergirl, you are apparently not understanding what i am writing. are all puppies produced by what you call byb good? no, are all puppies produced by the show folks bad? no. but a random breeding has a better chance of producing healthy puppies then a breeding based on color, size or any other non-health related trait. a random breeding does not specifically move you away from the path of health. am i in favor of random breedings? no, I am not. but it is not my right to tell someone else what to do with their dog.
My own mom is an example of a BYB(just so you know we don't get along and I disagree with everything she has done) anyway, she bred together her two dogs, her female lab/pitbull mix, that she got from a backyard breeder who called them lab/shepards, and a malamute/shepard mix that they found as a stray as a puppy. Noel(the mom) went into her first heat and Casino(the dad) at only 9 months old bred her and my mom was the typical person who wanted her dog to have "just 1 litter" before she got them fixed and it was okay because everyone knew Noel and wanted a puppy just like her, and since Casino was so cute, of course all of the puppies would be cute. At 3 weeks old the pups started eating on their own and at 4 weeks old my mom gave all the pups away, yes 4 weeks old. and on top of that she took both of the parents to a high kill shelter because they killed a cat of hers. So now, someone has a bunch of puppies that they don't know the parents too, they don't even know what the mixes are because my mom took the pups to a place and gave them away.....no parents to view. Tell me something, my mom is the most typical BYB around, did she produce good pups to all those people? Are they better pups than a good breeders pups??? Guess will find out in a few years when peoples puppies start getting sick, have joint problems, or die. Or better yet, the prey drive that made the parents kill the cat come out in the pups and they bite a kid or kill someone elses cat........ I WANT ONE OF THOSE PUPPIES!!!!! (extreme sarcasm)
I have yet to actually tell someone what to do with their dog. But I work at a shelter and I see the results of these "random breedings" everyday getting euthanized, so please don't tell me that I don't know what I am talking about. Mutts or purebreds, there is no room for BYB's!
--" but a random breeding has a better chance of producing healthy puppies then a breeding based on color, size or any other non-health related trait." Random breeding is not in any way better for dogs. Since the beginning of domesticated does humans have breed them to meet certain needs. As a result dogs have genetic deffects from poor breeding practices. This is not because of responsible breeders. Letting dogs breed on their own or putting dogs together because they simply appear healthy is not any different from what you are saying is wrong.
and i got my dog from pound and shes a beautiful dog and so are her puppies.. they all look like her and she looks like a cockapoo they look just like that but i dont know what the father is and i still think that she had an owner at one and she was breed with her same kind... I really dont know but everyone on ere has seen them and her.. and can say that them puppies are very cute..
theres one reason i can tell she had an owner at once.. because she is scaired to death of my brother and no one else.. my brother reminds her or someone that must have hurt her bad.. like an owner of hers...
redrose46, though i don't believe that you understand what you read, I do give you credit for at lest looking at one of the sites. owners/breeders, for this discussion there is not difference. if an owner never breeds, then it never breeds for the wrong traits and passes nothing along from his/her dog. i have heard that i am ignorent, i have heard that i am a bad breeder, that i don't know what i am talking about. i have heard oh baloney and that was it. i have not heard, nor seen any scientific evidence to dispute anything that i have said. go out and buy some books on genetics, on special (as in species, not somthing special) vitality and population dynamics. if you can back up your arguments with knowledge, biology science and fact, then do it. if not? then we are not even on the same playing field. this is not directed at you specifically redrose46, but to everybody. don't try to make an argument that you can't back up. what I am offering to you folks is NOT my opinion, it is biologic fact. I couldn't change it if i wanted to.
i breed shorhairs, have not yet bred my viszla, not sure yet if she will be good enough. I do not have a website though my current expected litted might get listed on one with pics, have not decided yet. most of my dogs are sold before the breeding even takes place. the lines that i run are pretty well known and the individual dogs that i own are well known in the trial community. I don't really advertise because the dogs that i produce would not make good pets. the general dog owner is not prepared for the hurricanes i call my dogs. you want pics? that is not an issue. I will not post them but i did leave my e-mail address earlier in this thread, if you send me a request i will send pics if you like.
well i have seen lot of ppl that breed dogs and over half of them do the shows.. there dogs have puppies and i have never seen any with any kind of sickness.. I got a dog from a friend that breed there dog and that dog had a very bad illness when he got sick.. he had some kind of brain cancer.. and i had a friend get a puppy from a show breeder that had 6 champions in there blood line and he was very health and lived a very long life and died of old age.. so how can you say that show breeders dogs aren't health and backyard breeders are?
people on this site have alluded to me being no better then the byb that y'all talk so bad about just because i try to share some basic genetic education that i have been years in the learning. several folks have said i am just like "them" or no better then what i talk about. that is fine, i certianly do not expect everyone to be willing to learn. but if even one person, takes the time to actually learn the science behind what we talk about instead of only following their emotions, then I have suceeded.
From what you said you don't sound like a BAD breeder to me. I love it when breeders screen future owners and don't breed unless most of if not all of the pups have homes. Don't let other people's opinions bother you. IF they are uninformed about your breeding practices don't bother trying to defend yourself. Would still like to see your dogs. firstname.lastname@example.org