I can't believe the state of being that we find ourselves in in america today. so many of you folks are so high and mighty with the wayt that you treat other people on here when often you don't know a think about what you are talking about. you talk about breeding for health, then suggest that people look for championship bloodlines. well here it is, show people have screwed up more dogs with their breeding programs then they will ever admit. they have not only hurt the health of a lot of breeds, they have bred most of the work out of "champion" working breeds. The average back yard breeder produces a better quality pup then the average show breeder. notice that that was not entirelyinclusive, there are of course exceptions. you folks are so sure that you are right that you fail to give others the benifit of the doubt or the respect and freedom that is due your fellow american. so it has been said, go ahead.....
"The average back yard breeder produces a better quality pup then the average show breeder" ...................Can you prove this? People like you...sheesh! If that is true, then why are pet store pups always getting sick, but well bred-show breeder pups are healthy?
"People like you...sheesh! If that is true, then why are pet store pups always getting sick, but well bred-show breeder pups are healthy? " people like me? please tell me all about me, I would love to know! well bred show breeder pups are healthy, I would agree with that. I don't agree that most of them are well bred. are some? yes, of course but not nearly as many as you are led to believe. when you breed for anything but performance, health suffers. that means if you breed for conformation, color anything of that nature, HEALTH WILL SUFFER. the only true test of a dogs health is long term physical performance of that dog and its line. this is biology and science talking here, not just an opinion. take to the books and study study study! research is a wonderful thing. If there was a 3 time NFC whoe's pedigrees were full of CH. I would not even consider letting him cover one of my dogs. why? because the show people (as a whole) cover up the dirty little secrets about what is really in the blood of their dogs. why do they? to win and because they can. in performance animals you cannot hide the imperfections. bad hips/eyes/attitude/sickness/elbows whatever, will not alow a dog to perform well. I do know show people, and yes, I know of the things that they do first hand.
i agree that the well bred ones are healthy, it is just that the majority of them are not well bred!! but yes, there are some of them that are. pearl, oh balony? remind me on monday and i will post some sites that will show exactly what has happened to some breeds over the last 50-75 years in the show ring. I am not against showing, I am against breeding an unhealthy dog that cannot do what the dog was originally created for. like the whole conflict on here about "pure breds" vs mutts. well, all breeds did not just "appear" even my dogs, thogh they are "pure bred" by todays standards had a mixed heritage. it is not good or bad, it is just the way that it is.
"i agree that the well bred ones are healthy, it is just that the majority of them are not well bred!! but yes, there are some of them that are." Ummm.....no. The majority of them are well bred, but only some of them aren't. You have that statement backwards.
your average back yard breeder tends to breed more randomly with less emphasis on any characteristic. that randomness is better then breeding specifically for certian traits that lead to reducing the overall health of the dog verses traits (performance) that by definition improve the health of the dog. that is what i meant by high and mighty, you folks are NOT stupid, you just have not yet learned the science and true biology behind genetics and heritable traits. you will, I have faith in each and every one of you. if you care so much (as you profess) about the dogs under your care I am sure that you will eventually learn the science and be awakened. follow the light!
backwards? i don't think so. how many of the terriers can still hunt or go to ground? how many otter hounds even know what an otter is much less know how to kill one? look at the Vizsla and the Weimeraner. they have been big hits in the show ring and now anytime you want one for the actual field you have to be sooooo careful which lines you get a pup from because for the most part the breed in this country has had the hunt/point bred right out of it. in this rare case the brits and germans have it right. in many of their show rings a dog must be able to perform that task for which it was bred before a show championship will be awarded.
rednose red, send me an e-mail, firstname.lastname@example.org and I will (next week) send you to some sites that will give you good examples of what i talk about. I must now leave you all (probably for the weekend). If you don't agree with me after you have seen and heard what I have then so be it. I really don't think that will be the case however. form follows function, not the other way around! and yes, I will go "play" with my dogs. they will have at least 5 training sessions each between now and monday am! have a good weekend all....
"your average back yard breeder tends to breed more randomly with less emphasis on any characteristic" If I was breeding a chihuahua, I would want a good quality one. If I put two really pretty chihuahuas together I should get one pretty pup....If I were to do what you say all that I would have to do is throw two chihuahuas together, (unhealthy, good looking or not) and get one nice one? So putting less emphasis on breeding to get a good dog is bad? Are you saying that selective breeding gives you a worse chance of a good dog, but throwing two together is the right way to go?
Hm. Well since hunting otter is banned in both the US and in Europe, where the breed was developed, I'm pretty sure that it's impossible to keep that trait in the breed. However, they do make excellent tracking dogs.
i am high and mighty. i am arrogant and egotistical. i am a perfectionist and a control a freak. i am not fat but i am lazy. i think my !@$% don't stink. cause i am human. this is why i love my dog e is none of these things
I have to agree with Hoosgow. Performance has left the dog in the show ring. Now they are only bred for looks ,not work . Take a look at the some of the hunting breeds,who needs all that hair,they don't preform what they where bred for,only to look pretty.