I have with my next door nieghbors Boxer . He suffered so much ,they had to tape and retape again, he was in so much pain ,the poor little guy. Granted after many months of healing,you can't touch his ears ,he does look regal. Was it worth it for him?
Before Punches ordeal ,I had no opinion really one way or another. I mean I didn't care for it ,but I wasn't as vocal about it ,but Punch really changed my mind.
I know cropping does prevent hemotomas which Tigger had about 3 years ago. That's not a too often occurence.Still the cons for me out weigh the pros.Again jmo.
I agree, if there is a problem with the breed, then that should be addressed. Cropping is NOT a permanant solution. You could be breeding dogs that are SEVERELY prone to ear infections, but since you crop them, you wouldn't know and then some unlucky person decides to keep their dog normal and natural and they end up with a horror story. So, basically, cropping is the only way to cure Dobermans ear infections? Seems like a 'FLAW' in the breed. (I am repeating myself, it seems)
Actually some Boxer breeders are breeding for naturally bobbed tails. Hubby and I looked into one of their puppies before we bought Jade or Diesel. They started breeding them with corgies. (btw the breeder was a geneticist) It took them something like 10 years to be able to produce a "pure" boxer with a naturally bobbed tail. If my memory serves me right (sometimes it doesn't lol) they were AKC recognized. I'll have to piddle through my favories to post a link to their research. Really interesting. The only reason we didn't purchase one of these puppies was that there was still a chance to have some pups born without the bob tail. I think it was something like 3 out of 8. Corgies are the same way right?
So I guess if we just left things the way they were created we wouldn't have breakthroughs like this right? Eventually there may need to be no reason to crop, or dock. Momma's puppies will all have tails, only because I have no choice. The ears will also be uncropped, well I hope, I think a boxer with a tail, and cropped ears would just look funny lol. Btw the reamaining 9 babies are doing great!
Thank you for sharing your story beckabean. Is that possible though to mix a purebred with different breed of purebred and have it ever allowed back in to the purebred pool with AKC? I have never heard of that. If so miniboxers (mixed w/ bostons) here we come...hahaha.
***Edited By: alicat1 on 5/16/2006 6:48:05 PM*** Reason: ad
rednosed that sucks about your neighbors dog but I can promise you any dog properly cropped and cared for would not be in pain like that. taping a lot maybe but there is no reason ti should be painfull adn make them head shy. So tis like saying I won't get in a car because I saw a car accident once.
I like the bob tailed boxer project and would support that but it seems most boxer people are against adding them to the regualr gene pool.
And I think someone asked,not all corgis are born with a bob tail. My girl was born with nothing there and soem are born with a long tail.
even with genetic engineering I doubt you could get that boxer or dobe ear though. If someone tried the same way as the corgi study I'd be interested though.
***Edited By: joce on 5/16/2006 7:24:32 PM*** Reason: g
Oh lord, I may not visit this thread for a while. Those are nice boxers with German style head though. They don't really look like American Boxers. I like german boxer though, so I don't mind them.
Joce- Boxer ears must be a lot different than dobes. They are really easy to f-up, and many many of the cropped pet ears are worse than a natural ear.
It is also pretty painful for them. I mean it is cut from tip to chin, stitched and then stapled at the bottom. If you wrap too tight you can cut off the circulation and lose the ear tip. If you remove the tape wrong or too fast you can remove the ear tip.
I have seen the ears get terribly infected over and over. I have seen people let them get frost bite (wrapping too tight and then taking them out in the cold, not for a very long time either).
The then there is the one ear up/ one down look or the cropped and down look. It sucks, and like I said my younger ones run when they see me break out the tape box out. Eventually they get over it, but it is not good at the time.
I do crop ears when I have to. My girls I know for sure I am not going to show (solid color) I don't crop, ever. A few times I have regretted it, because once that decision has been made, even if they turn out nice you can't show them.
Any way that is why I feel torn about the ear cropping, but am 100% for docking and dews. In either case I still believe it is up to the owner to make the decision and am against legislation.
Wanted to add - Aussies are like Corgis. Some are born with natural bobs.
Docking is rarely done for a purely cosmetic reason. Even if the dog is "just a show dog" a show dog is supposed to be a perfect example of the breed. In working dogs, that should mean that with training that dog would be able to step out of the ring and do it's job.
And yes, we as people can change the standard. But the standard was created for a reason by people far smarter than we are about those specific breeds. They had a darn good reason for altering the structure and appearance of the dog. It's not something that someone woke up one morning and said "I think I'll cut off a part of the dog for fun!".
And I'm sorry, you can't make these kind of calls unless you know more about dogs than the average person. I don't know enough about cropping to form an educated opinion, so I'm staying away from that aspect of this topic. As far as docking goes in working breeds, I think it's a great concept that causes a newborn pup slight discomfort and a small amount of pain to save them from a LOT of pain as an adult dog when it will stick with them. I understand how a newborn puppy reacts to this kind of thing and I've see how dew claw removal effects a litter and it's not nearly as traumatic as having a dew claw torn off an adult dog. I know tail docking is less traumatic than a broken tail.
And again, I personally wouldn't use a breeder who isn't breeding dogs who can do it all. I want to see one who is proving their conformation in the show ring, proving their dogs can do their job by either competing in trials or actually working, and that make good family members. It's part of aiming to breed a well rounded, perfect breed specimen. If the breeder is ONLY breeding for nice pets, that's great, but they aren't actually proving that what they are breeding for that breed is better than mediocre. I've seen so many breeders lose site of the overall dog this way.
Rednose...Who are you to call me selfish? I'm one of the least selfish people on this planet. You're way out of line with that comment...you don't even know me.
Cropping my dogs ears doesn't make me selfish...wanting him to have the look and function he was breed to have isn't selfish....I want what I'm paying for which is a gaurdian of my home and a loving pet. So you really think for one minute if I didn't care for this dog that I would spend out over $500 for his care for the procedure....No, If I were as you call me, selfish, I would get what I want even if it was at the expense of the dog and his health....I would cut the %$^things my self now wouldn't I.
I'm so tired of people trying to force their veiws on other people. Your entitled to them of course, but I'm not a bad person because I don't share them. My dogs are the most spoiled four legged creatures, and my other pets that are also...We even spoil the hamster and hermit crab. You must be crazy....I spend more on my pets and give them more time then I do myself.